You are not logged in. Please register or login.

#61 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 166 weeks ago

James wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

This late in the game, most interesting time period IMO is 2005- early 2006 where a reunion of some sort was clearly taking shape until it imploded for reasons we'll never know.

I'd like the full true story on what really went down during the Beta incident...it all went to shit after that.

I agree, I’d like the full story here too. It does seem that things were being maneuvered toward a reunion, only for it to collapse and Axl to come out of whatever happened even MORE angry and hateful toward Slash.

Which is a shame. A reunion circa 05-06-07 would’ve been amazing.

Axl was in terrific shape physically and vocally in those years and Slash still gave a shit, plus Izzy was on good terms with Axl at that time and could’ve been involved in a reunion.

This was the period where Axl and Matt seemed to bury the hatchet too, making it possible for him to have been involved in some capacity as well.

#62 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 166 weeks ago

James wrote:

Also take into consideration how Matt said in 96-97 they had cooked up about an albums worth of 4 minute rockers...both Hard School and Oklahoma could potentially fall into this category.

After reading that Slash comment Blackstar posted, I definitely want to see Duff go into further detail.


The one thing that makes me still think it could be 96 is that Slash really wasn’t involved much after 1994.

Oh he was involved... dive into the 95-96 section of Chinese Whispers. The problem with his involvement is how they're barely on speaking terms and Axl is bringing zero lyrics/vocals to the table. The sessions are nothing but riffs, jams, and instrumentals.

It still blows me away that for a brief moment in time, Axl had both Slash and Zakk jamming in the studio and supposedly nothing came of it.

Out of the songs we've heard, I'd wager Oklahoma has its roots in 96.

Axl’s press release which said Slash hadn’t been involved musically since 1994 outside of a brief “feel period” in 1995.

The problem with believing Axl's side of the story is the contradictions.

One minute he wasn't there since 1994...the next minute he was there but disliked the material Slash brought to the table...the minute after that he loved it but Slash balked.

He is an unreliable narrator of the GNR saga....and that is a travesty considering the fact the other narrators are Slash and Duff...two guys who left for 20 years.

All the various gaps in the stories are unlikely to ever be filled.

The constant re Axl’s level of involvement at least lyrically seems to be that he was obsessed with his legal woes or that they were taking up so much of his energy that he felt he couldn’t produce lyrics. There’s a comment by Zakk Wylde about Axl saying roughly that to him in ‘95. But of course, maybe Axl just had bad writer’s block and that was an excuse?

Then you have Axl later saying that Slash, Duff and Stephanie destroyed his self esteem by saying his material was crap and that’s why he didn’t write for a long time. True, not true? Who can say

It does seem to me overall though that the combination of the Snakepit material being “taken” by Slash (when Axl changed his mind and wanted to work on it) and the Sympathy for the Devil fiasco happening very close to each other really fractured things between Axl and Slash. It seems right at that point at the end of 94 things do seem to come to a standstill

Yes, Slash is around for the Zakk sessions in Jan 95. But were  he and Axl in the room at the same time or was it separate with Axl only hearing tapes of these rehearsals?

Similarly next time he’d be available would be August 95…Axl was pissed he took Snakepit out on tour. I’m sure Slash did jam and rehearse with Matt / Duff / Dizzy, but was Axl there?

There was the whole Paul Huge issue hanging over the band that Axl wouldn’t let go of

Slash seems to have detached in 95 mentally, keeping himself busy with actually productive and non drama ridden stuff and getting increasingly bitter regarding Axl in the press throughout that year

#63 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 166 weeks ago

Blackstar wrote:

Slash: “Hard Skool,” in essence, was a completed song when I was first introduced to it. And Duff and I went in and redid the bass and the guitars. [February 2022]

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4135-hard-skool

So if it's from 1996, Slash wasn't involved with it then and it was only Duff and Matt.

It could be two different songs. Duff said Axl was a big Jackie Chan fan, so it's likely that he gave that working title to another, later song.

The one thing that makes me still think it could be 96 is that Slash really wasn’t involved much after 1994. He was basically unofficially out long before Axl sent his fax, with only a few sessions and rehearsals here and there in 95 and 96 that it doesn’t seem he was really invested in. Like on your site there’s that one 96 interview where he says he hasn’t even seen Axl in roughly 3 years (before he “rejoined” for that 3 week period in fall 1996 before finally leaving)

Also 1996 as you know is the year where Matt and Duff are quoted multiple times saying Axl has been spending the last few years learning to play guitar, with both praising his level of skill on it. So it could’ve initiated as a riff or idea he worked on

Add in Slash’s last chat before he left where he claimed the material they were working on was Axl’s.

#64 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 166 weeks ago

Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

One of the suckiest things about the reunion is that we’ll never really know how things went down (from Axl’s side), and also that a lot of this archival material (IE early Fall to Pieces, GNR version of Back and Forth Again, and so on) will never see the light of day. Even stuff that is less important but still interesting like the re recorded AFD won’t.

#65 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 166 weeks ago

BLS-Pride wrote:
misterID wrote:

I think it was a Robin/Tommy/Freese song. Duff and Slash probably got credit for restructuring the song

This. Paul might have had a hand in it too. It wasn't a song from 96.

Paul was around and working in the studio with Axl and Dizzy in 96. Slash was barely musically involved. His main musical involvement seems to end in January 1995 with the Zakk Wylde sessions, and then he went off on tour with Snakepit from February to August 1995.

Then in 1996 he was doing shows with Slash’s Bluee Ball, stuff for MJ’s HiStory album, making appearances. His life was very separate from GN’R, even if he was still officially “in the band.”

He said in 1996 he hadn’t seen Axl in roughly 3 years. Basically, he hadn’t seen Axl in the flesh since he went off on tour with Snakepit

The last time Axl and Slash are even fully confirmed to be in the same room, at the same time, for music reasons was when Slash went to try to talk to Axl during the Sympathy sessions in October 1994.

You have Axl’s press release which said Slash hadn’t been involved musically since 1994 outside of a brief “feel period” in 1995.

In September 1996 Slash said he had only been “back in the band” his words, for “three weeks”

It’s certainly possible Paul, Duff etc was coming up with stuff while he was mostly gone. Like Duff did those unasked for demos with Izzy alone for Guns in April 1995, but Izzy had no involvement with Slash or Axl on it.

It was all very fragmented and fractured after Slash did Snakepit and went off on the road.

#66 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 167 weeks ago

In November 1999, Axl said this regarding Slash

Slash’s name pops up repeatedly, invoked in a way that suggests a shellshocked husband speaking of an ex-wife after a particularly horrific divorce. “It is a divorce,” Rose says with a sad stare. In retrospect, Rose sees the band’s massive success as part of its undoing. “The poverty is what kept us together,” he says. “That was how we became Guns n’ Roses. Once that changed …” He turns momentarily quiet. “Guns n’ Roses was like the old Stones or whatever,” he says. “Not necessarily the friendliest bunch of guys.”

''I never said that I was bitter,'' Rose explains, characteristically concerned with making fine distinctions. ''Hurt, yeah. Disappointed. I mean, with Slash, I remember crying about all kinds of things in my life, but I had never felt hot, burning tears...hot, burning tears of anger. Basically, to me, it was because I am watching this guy and I don't understand it. Playing with everyone from Space Ghost to Michael Jackson. I don't get it. I wanted the world to love and respect him. I just watched him throw it away.''

#67 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 167 weeks ago

polluxlm wrote:

I think it was 2002 before the tour when Axl posted a big statement which was all basically about Slash and how he was a cancer.

While in 2006 he said "he had love for him and wish him the best", before the visiting his house thing turned it sour again.

It seems it was meeting the world in 2001 and 2002 that turned up his hatred for Slash. He realized how much him leaving had damaged his own brand. In a sense it was the first time Axl personally felt the damage and it pissed him off. Tour wasn't selling, media was hostile and the record company wanted a reunion.

The cancer statement was in around 2012 or 2013. It was sometime post 2010

This was his 2002 press release, portion regarding Slash

“Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There'd still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn't out of opinion that Slash would go ‘hey it doesn't work', but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ‘Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can't do that.' People like to call me paranoid. It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we'd have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that. It's not something Slash could live with. Slash chose not to be here over control issues.

"Now people can say ‘Well Axl, you're after control of the band too.' You're damn skippy. That's right. I am the one held responsible since day one. When it comes to Guns n' Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. Within those parameters, I give everyone as much freedom to do what they want something Slash has verified in several interviews. Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash's ability to control. He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith's Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don't know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It's not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs.

"Since none of that happened, that's the reason why that material got scrapped. If one were to say well then why not do it now there are several reasons.1) My band, too much time, too much effort and hardship. Confidence in our material. Excitement in watching this grow and being a part of the whole experience. 2) Money. You get what you play for and nothing's free. Can you cover the cost of this venture and its financial potential that I am just supposed to walk away from and for what? To where? I do not believe in any true effort or potential regarding most of my past relationship from the other party or parties, creatively or emotionally. Without that the money from a reunion doesn't mean much and though I'm sure the alumni is up for it for me it would be as or more lacking than it was during our attempts to work together previously. As a friend and former friend of Slash said to me in regards to working with Slash, "you can only do so many pull ups." This is my shot and you can root for me to fail all you want, but there is simply way too much put into this to cater to someone else's selfish needs and destroy peoples dreams I truly care about including my own. Not too mention that though I've fought what feels like the heart of the nature of this entire industry, my own people would probably eat me alive if I opted for a lesser course. 3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea."

#68 Re: Guns N' Roses » Will the next single be something we've heard already? » 167 weeks ago

davegnfnr2k wrote:
Wilco wrote:

Ultimately it is Axl’s show and has been  Axl’s show since the early 90s.

If Axl really didn’t approve of Caram’s work it simply wouldn’t have made the final cut and Caram wouldn’t still be involved.

The fact that Caram is still involved almost 20 years later speaks to that Axl is fine with his mixing.

Axl can like Caram's mixes all he wants, it still doesn't change the fact that Caram is a hack and his mixes are by far the worst out of all the mixes.  There is no defending all of the clipping in the CD album versions that is all on Caram.   Also Axl loves yes men, that is why people like him and Team Brazi are still around. Now I know no one is going to say team brazil does a great job and that is why Axl keeps them around.

I think by 2008, Axl was so done with the whole thing and emotionally over it that he didn’t really care about the nitty gritty details such as clipping etc, it seemed he more cared about a certain plan of promotion that he felt Universal didn’t follow up on, hence him also not really promoting the record.

#69 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 167 weeks ago

davegnfnr2k wrote:

I think if it was Axl would have mentioned it before playing it live on tour.   
And even if it was the song would be vastly different musically because the locker room version has BH and Robin written all over it.
Plus I cant see Axl putting anything on any of the albums from the 99-02 band with writing credits from slash or duff.

Someone should ask Duff  though if HS was written in 96.

Also remember that the original track list to CD was a little different and a couple of songs got swapped out bc of the leaks.
I do wonder if Hard School was one of the tracks that were going to make CD and were replaced by one of the leaks.
Wasn't CITR supposed to be on the "3rd album"

The main structure is very Slash-like, very classic Guns. Only the pre riff intro (which was removed) and verse riffing and the  outro tapping/shredding are Paul/Finck staples. The main structure and riff is very much like a Slash riff, especially if you consider his stuff from 95-2000

Also, HS was credited to Axl, Slash, Duff, Paul, Robin, Tommy. No BH credit on HS.

Per Marc Canter, Axl has indicated back in 2001 that there were 3 songs Axl wanted to have Slash be on on CD, if Slash would publicly apologize and repudiate statements Axl felt were lies. So in 2000-2001 his feelings hadn’t really turned to the visceral hatred for Slash that they did by 2008. Slash’s book, the 2005 visit, and I’m sure other things we don’t know about behind the scenes did a lot to harden his feelings more after 2001. If you go back and read his RS interview from 2000, he sounds more regretful/sad than hateful regarding Slash.

#70 Guns N' Roses » Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96? » 167 weeks ago

Wilco
Replies: 73

Back in the summer of 1996, GN’R had instrumentally completed a song that was meant for a Jackie Chan film. This was confirmed both by an interview with Duff back in 1996, and by Matt in his book.

When HS traded as a bootleg years before its eventual release, it went by the name “Jackie Chan.” Now, its possible someone listened to that Duff interview - but then again, it was a really obscure reference buried in a solo Howard Stern appearance. It’s also possible that Jackie Chan was a working title for another song.

Axl confirmed that Jackie Chan was a working title for a song dubbed “Checkmate” by the fans (he said Checkmate was a fake title). But was this song what we would come to know as HS?

If so, is it perhaps pure coincidence that they were working on a song for a Jackie Chan movie in 96 that stand out to both Duff and Matt AND Axl happened to give (perhaps a later) song a working title of Jackie Chan?

Or does the song in some way branch back to 1996? Fortus did say songs for the “next record” were grown from seeds laid down by Slash, implying they’d worked on material that was initially done while Slash was still in tow

I know there’s obviously no way for anyone here to know “the answer”, but I am curious on YOUR answers

Thx in advance smile

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB