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#641 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 222 weeks ago
Are all these Trumpists who are unseating 'centrists' heroes too?
#642 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 222 weeks ago
Maybe you falsely believe the ACA was in any way bipartisan or that a single Republican contributed to any part of the law? I don’t know where you get this notion of a bipartisan bill that was voted against by people who worked on it. Bottom line is without GOP support, nothing the extreme left wants will happen. So maybe meet in the middle and work on stuff the majority of people want, versus trying to reengineer the entire economy.
Honestly that whole ACA act is when i got involved in politics. It’s why i deeply distrust the GOP.
We could go through it all line by line...but precious babies who were born with pre-existing conditions turned out to be the GOPs biggest enemy.
That’s when i said ‘fuck ‘em’ and I’ve never looked back.
#643 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 222 weeks ago
mitchejw wrote:Question ...when Manchin says no on the infrastructure package because he “doesn’t think they should go out alone will he still be a patriot and a hero?
Or even better...Manchin agrees to a deal but none have the Republicans voted for it...then they get to go back home and take credit for it anyways....are they true patriots ahd heroes too?
I believe he’s the most courageous politician in America at the moment. Democrats cheered McCain when he singlehandedly stopped the ACA repeal. Being brave isn’t something that comes with million dollar Nike contracts and adoration on Twitter.
Manchin is part of the 10 senators that allegedly have drafted a multi trillion dollar infrastructure bill. If Schumer refuses to bring that bill to the floor, or Pelosi refuses to bring it to a vote in the House, why is the narrative Republican obstruction?
That’s my whole point...behind the scenes they negotiate...in public they will likely never vote for it. So is it really bipartisan then?
Unless I’ve completely misread the situation, in order for negotiations to be bipartisan, do they not have to still vote for it?
I’ve dismissed silly shit like court packing or other stuff the Dems promised but will never deliver on.
But this whole negotiation thing...if it doesn’t actually garner a single Republican vote...then what was the point?
#644 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 222 weeks ago
Question ...when Manchin says no on the infrastructure package because he “doesn’t think they should go out alone will he still be a patriot and a hero?
Or even better...Manchin agrees to a deal but none have the Republicans voted for it...then they get to go back home and take credit for it anyways....are they true patriots ahd heroes too?
#645 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 222 weeks ago
I wouldn’t know. I know that a Voting Law is being debated with near universal Democratic support making it a federal crime for Illinois (or any other state) to ever attempt to require ID. A quick google search shows a political group campaigning for Voter ID in your state, but I don’t know the support they have. In my state, a bill was presented last week, that I strong support, and that improved the security of our elections.
So I’ll repeat my original statement that started this dialogue and state that the US is the only western democracy that doesn’t require a state issued ID to register and/or vote. Most states only require a utility bill for identification purposes, and one of our major political parties is actively trying to outlaw any form of ID to register or vote in 2021. In the most powerful nation on earth. A nation that is under constant bombardment of cyber attacks and encryption hacks.
To answer your first question...there is very little support for this because it is a pretty popular belief that these measures have nothing to do with election security. Are we concerned about election security? Yes. Do we believe voter ID ameliorates these concerns? Not as it is currently being proposed in Georgia, Texas and anywhere else where the Republicans are control.
I will also state this...when I became a citizen/resident of Illinois and no longer a citizen of Wisconsin...I had to prove my united states' citizenship by producing everything from a birth certificate to a high school report card. All in all I had to produce approximately 12 documents as proof...
So yes...we here in Illinois are quite skeptical that any of this shit has anything to do with election security. We can still get hacked even with a library card ID.
#646 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 222 weeks ago
I do know the requirements for my state...however...these new, more stringent requirements aren't being proposed or considered here, are they?
#647 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 222 weeks ago
misterID wrote:It's easy to get an ID, they just need to make sure everyone who wants one gets one. Community organizers would be good at this
Are the two IDs typically used in the US passport and driver's license? One simple solution to this that is probably easy to do is just make applying for and receiving a passport free.
Like you say, if they want to check IDs they need to just make sure it's easy for everyone to get one. And easy includes cost but also the process.
You haven’t gotten an answer to this question because the proponents don’t really know or care.
#648 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 223 weeks ago
Axl S wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:No I am not saying that. I am saying if you are a stupid mother fucker, please don’t vote. Just because you have a right to vote doesn’t mean you should. If you don’t do your homework on the candidates, don’t vote. Stupid people voting can have consequences. This is common sense. I want people aware of the issues that have made a sound decision to vote. It is their moral responsibility to not participate if they are uniformed.
Ok, well what's that got to do with what was being talked about. You just went on a rant about wanting certain people not to vote.
I said that a concern with ID checks at stations, is if ID is not provided to all of those eligible to vote then you've created a cost barrier to voting. That's a problem for any poorer people who live paycheck to paycheck, dollar to dollar and also probably for homeless people etc. In practice it could function as pseudo-disenfranchisment.
You read that and decided to complain about "stupid" people voting. Why?
Because a lot of stupid people have ID’s. They can legally vote but it would be better if they didn’t. Getting an ID seems simple but maybe it is hard. Hard for me to know since I have had an ID since I was 15 years old.
This is exactly why i believe you shouldn’t be able to vote...
Look at you arbitrarily deciding who is stupid and shouldn’t get to vote.
#649 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 223 weeks ago
mitchejw wrote:Axl S wrote:Are you saying that for anyone where affording ID might be an issue that they are a) clearly uninformed and b) even though they have a right to vote it's actually good to create barriers to stop those people voting? That's fucked up dude.
That’s exactly what he’s saying and there are millions that think this way. You see...in America there is no right to vote...it’s more of a privilege. Whenever an election comes around there are a new set of obstacles overcome for a very certain, select people. The awesome thing is that the government employees that are supposed to guide you through the process often don’t care enough or were never trained properly and after sitting in line for an hour they’ll simply reject you for filling out the wrong form or missing something.
It kind of becomes a game.
On the status of DC, PR and Guam - as an outsider it's always seemed weird that you have American citizens that do not have the same representation as other Americans. Since congress is a key legislative body within the US it's baffling to me that people who live in these places aren't properly represented there. Seems like a serious democratic deficit.
This is exactly America. The whole point here is to over represent some people and under represent others.
Lol, you live such a miserable life. You bitch about everything
I probably would be happier if i didn’t give a shit about anything like you.
#650 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 223 weeks ago
Smoking Guns wrote:Axl S wrote:Every citizen have a right to vote and cost shouldn't be a barrier to that. What if someone's homeless - should they have a right to vote?
You're arguing to restrict voting access based on socioeconomic circumstance (which already is the case in some places).
Anyway, this problem is fixed with free federal issued ID.
Actually I am saying if you are not aware of issues or someone’s platform you morally should not participate in a vote for the most powerful person on the planet. Can they? Sure. Should they? Probably no.
Are you saying that for anyone where affording ID might be an issue that they are a) clearly uninformed and b) even though they have a right to vote it's actually good to create barriers to stop those people voting? That's fucked up dude.
That’s exactly what he’s saying and there are millions that think this way. You see...in America there is no right to vote...it’s more of a privilege. Whenever an election comes around there are a new set of obstacles overcome for a very certain, select people. The awesome thing is that the government employees that are supposed to guide you through the process often don’t care enough or were never trained properly and after sitting in line for an hour they’ll simply reject you for filling out the wrong form or missing something.
It kind of becomes a game.
On the status of DC, PR and Guam - as an outsider it's always seemed weird that you have American citizens that do not have the same representation as other Americans. Since congress is a key legislative body within the US it's baffling to me that people who live in these places aren't properly represented there. Seems like a serious democratic deficit.
This is exactly America. The whole point here is to over represent some people and under represent others.
