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#5001 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 814 weeks ago
mitchejw wrote:buzzsaw wrote:People are paid a livable wage. They choose to live beyond their means and expect to be bailed out. What is really a livable wage and what people think is a livable wage are two different things. And the premise that jobs pay less than market value is a joke. Jobs pay what people are willing to do them for, no less.
Oh god...this pure capitilism crap is such nonsense. This whole world is predicated on the strong taking advantage of the week. Is that part of pure capitilism?
For example...the way wal-mart runs itself...They pay their employees a small wage, and whatever profits that are established are not recycled back into the system. They run other local business out of business because they can charge lower based on an 'advantage' that they create while manipulating the system. Could you imagine a small town economy in which Wal-mart was the largest employer? That's a receipe that would put a strangle hold on any small town.
When businesses are individually owner, the money is recycled through the town and keeps it alive.
Wal-Mart actually uses hundreds of millions of dollars of public money to operate itself, especially if you factor in the medicaid costs their employees tend to use. It's actually subsidized in most towns. Wal-Mart isn't just capitalism, it has several advantages that a true free market system wouldn't give out.
But big box stores in general lower prices, and allow people to consume more. The basic premise, though unfortunate for local, less-efficient businesses, is a fine system.
Uh huh...just ask anyone who works there...that don't qualifty as full time employees. They must be loving it.
And if the cost of running an 'efficient town' means everyone in that town must work at wal-mart because their business just died. All the while some of the bigger slices of the pie go somewhere far, far away from that town.
#5002 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 814 weeks ago
People are paid a livable wage. They choose to live beyond their means and expect to be bailed out. What is really a livable wage and what people think is a livable wage are two different things. And the premise that jobs pay less than market value is a joke. Jobs pay what people are willing to do them for, no less.
Oh god...this pure capitilism crap is such nonsense. This whole world is predicated on the strong taking advantage of the week. Is that part of pure capitilism?
For example...the way wal-mart runs itself...They pay their employees a small wage, and whatever profits that are established are not recycled back into the system. They run other local business out of business because they can charge lower based on an 'advantage' that they create while manipulating the system. Could you imagine a small town economy in which Wal-mart was the largest employer? That's a receipe that would put a strangle hold on any small town.
When businesses are individually owner, the money is recycled through the town and keeps it alive.
#5003 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 814 weeks ago
mitchejw wrote:Unfortunately, I disagree...the casualties to capitalism are numerous. The people in charge of this system are not to be trusted.
If and when I have to choose between a business owner and the government, I will choose the government. And I am a business owner.
Capitalism is every individual choosing to do what they wish and trade when both parties think they'll benefit. There are no leaders in a capitalist system, just actors. Capitalism produces winners and losers, but every system does, and at least capitalism obliges you to enrich others before you can enrich yourself.
The Fed's activity and policies that subsidized home owning and lending caused the housing bubble, not greedy bankers (although there certainly are those). It's the government that perverted incentives to the point that neither lenders nor borrowers were able to accurately project what they could afford, and then they bailed out the banks and the wealthy with taxpayer money. Like most economic crises, the presence of government made things worse.
Obama's not socialism, but he is probably the most anti-business president in US history.
What does paying your employees a livable wage have to do with being anti-captilist. I have always understood from my loose understanding of 'business' that you don't pay your employees what you think they are worth, you pay them what the market demands. That is almost always less...much less.
As I said before...I AM a business owner...but I loath republican ideals. If pure capitalism is synonymous with republicanism in this country, I stand firmly against them. You see...what made me a democrat is not so much that I love everything democrats stand for...it's that I hate everything republicans stand for...from abortion, to religion, to business.
#5004 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 815 weeks ago
I will also tell you this...the people here are infuriated. Walker doesn't negotiate. He does what he thinks is right. And what he things is right is attacking worker.
He recently said this will create 250,000 new jobs in Wisconsin. What he didn't say is that they will all be minnimum wage jobs. The other thing he didn't say? This is all dependant on whether or not these massive tax cuts to the wealthy will be used in the state of Wisconsin. If history tells us anything, they won't.
These billionaires of Wisconsin will send the job opportunities elsewhere. The deep south, and perhaps not even in the U.S.
Go capatalism?
#5005 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 815 weeks ago
Unfortunately, I disagree...the casualties to capitalism are numerous. The people in charge of this system are not to be trusted.
If and when I have to choose between a business owner and the government, I will choose the government. And I am a business owner.
#5006 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 815 weeks ago
but it's a net loss as a group
#5007 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 815 weeks ago
To me it's this simple...if $20 used to buy 4 employees...now it buys 5 or 6 in Wisconsin...I emplore you to explain to me how this is a win for the middle class as the governor keeps touting.
Who is going to want to do these jobs that require a degree??? In Milwaukee, Scott Walker did a similar thing. He had the city's security in the hands of minnimum wage worker. Later it was found out that one of the leaders of this security organization was a convicted felon.
There is a heavy price to pay for this...and if you want to live in alabama...i say go.
#5008 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 815 weeks ago
perhaps protocal was followed....that's not even certain...if this was an option all along why did they take a month to do it?
#5009 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 815 weeks ago
The problem is just this...just because you have the majority doesn't mean you get to do whateve r you want, when you want to do it.
Many people in Wisconsin do not trust their government anymore.
The reason they fled is that the bill was not up for debate or discussion...it was simply voted on...that is WRONG no matter how you slice it.
#5010 Re: The Garden » The battle of Wisconsin-labor unions » 815 weeks ago
I do not believe in good and evil either...
I also don't quite understand what this article is getting at...or if y ou're implying that it justifies the means.
I don't like muddling all this complex legal jargon, and rationlization of political moves.
An open market cannot be trusted. This is how we got here in the first place.
