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#4731 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

I just posted something about how disproportionate the voting is in Wisconsin at the state government level to the representation. Republicans have vast majority's in both places of Congress and a Republican governor.

62.5% of the representation goes to what 49% of the state voted for. Why that doesn't bother you boggles my fucking mind.


Who drew the districts?  There's no way you'll have a perfect district and people 100 miles away shouldn't be in the same district as people in Madison or Milwaukee to leverage city voters pull either.  Census is in 4 years, you'll have a chance to change it then.

Yes...I understand that there is no perfectly drawn district....but a few very important parts of the state are disproportionately affected by these voter ID rules....students in Madison and minorities of Milwaukee. Thats worth noting.

I believe there was a fight about what constitutes as a voter ID. Student IDs don't count - they used to.

In addition, there was a big fight about closing down DMVs. There are almost no DMVs in Milwaukee proper. Scott Walker shut them down.

No longer are their polling places on campus either.

This seems pretty concerted to me RF.  Tell me what you think.

In a state where a few thousand votes matter...this seems important to consider.

#4732 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

I just posted something about how disproportionate the voting is in Wisconsin at the state government level to the representation. Republicans have vast majority's in both places of Congress and a Republican governor.

62.5% of the representation goes to what 49% of the state voted for. Why that doesn't bother you boggles my fucking mind.

#4733 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

polluxlm wrote:

Because they have been told black people aren't savvy enough to get an ID or use the Internet (the implicit racism in this position is quite astonishing to me). Supporting voter ID laws then makes them racists.

The DNC leadership probably knows that having and ID is something the vast majority of eligible voters already have, so I can only assume they fear the loss of a practice tailor made for election fraud.

Listen guys, this is never been my take on anything.   The DNC doesn't have to tell me things for me to make up my own opinion.

However, there are places in this country where you have to wait hours in line to even vote.

There are also places in this country where conveniently it's not as easy to get a voter ID in certain places and I don't think that's a coincidence.

I walked into my voting booth in voted in five minutes. Why is it so difficult to vote in some areas? Doesn't anyone find that a bit curious?

Bottom line is, in a democracy don't you want is many people who are as eligible to vote as possible? Because I am still of the belief that this is a strategy to  make it just a little bit more difficult to vote or more inconvenient to vote.

#4734 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

[youtube][embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMAVUBhWkps[/youtube][/embed]

Oh Ann Coulter is now someone worth listening to?

[youtube][embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwoGrDa5g2c[/youtube][/embed]

It's all far game then if we're back to this mud slinging

#4735 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

From your article:

"Voter turnout in this year's presidential primary was the highest since 1972 with voter ID in place, so to now suggest turnout was down in the general election because of it is wrong," Evenson said. "We have made voting easy while ensuring it is hard to cheat. Lower turnout in the general election was true nationwide. It was not unique to Wisconsin or voter ID."

Albrecht acknowledged that some of the drop-off in turnout had to do with the candidates and less enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. He also did not have statistics detailing how many voters were turned away for not having the proper ID."

So we see a lower turnout compared to 2012 nationwide, but the article wants to blame voter ID in Wisconsin. It also points to low income areas of Milwaukee, which surprise, turned out nationwide in surprisingly lower numbers than they did in 2012.

Clinton was a bad candidate and represented everything people hate about D.C.  You think Clinton knows who Rogers is?  Think she's drinking a beer while eating some cheese talking about what model Harley she prefers? Milwaukee and Wisconsin in general is a bastion of white working class who heavily favored Trump.

This is why. If you guys go full retard and align yourselves with Warren and Sanders types for 2020, you'll have a repeat.  Quit looking to liberal elites who couldn't change their own oil. Accept that Clinton was such a shit candidate, half the country voted for the guy who hosted a reality TV show over her.

I don't interpret that quote the same way you do....it's where votes "disappeared" that matters...and I'm talking about state governments who get to create their own rules for voting systems....where is your evidence of "cheating" anyway? I have never seen any evidence...except that scattered republican voters who voted twice in the last 4 years. I didn't ever hear you condemn that RF...

Essentially what you're saying is my choice in this country is between Republican lite and Republican?

You say that about "liberal elite" but what about your precious conservative elites? We just elected the most elite of the elite!

I will not be put in the position of defending Hillary....

I didn't say they cheated, the article did. But someone wearing a burka was able to get Huma Abedin's manhattan ballot because they don't require ID. Every state has public voting rolls that show the last time someone voted. If all you require is a Comcast bill with a matching name on it, that's a huge gaping hole in our elections that could easily be manipulated.  From a simple integrity perspective, controls should be in place. Anyone caught violating our election laws should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of party. I could link numerous examples of democratic voter fraud, but if you're interested just google it. Here is a generic issue from the Washington post citing examples:  http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/ … ts-all-to/

I didn't vote for Trump remember. I voted for Kasich in the primary and would have voted for Rubio next. Hardly elites of the GOP and world. Wasn't Rubio criticized during the debates for being 180k or so in debt?  Meanwhile Clinton left the White House with Millions in the bank and told reporters they were almost bankrupt.  Bernie just closed on his 3rd house by the way, but I wouldn't call him elite.

Ok....but let's talk about proportion...we're gonna prevent 89 people in Colorado  from voting twice by enacting strict voter ID laws that may actually block hundreds of thousands of actual qualified voters from voting? - I feel like this is so transparent that I don't even need my glasses to see through it....

If anything....it's very clever....it's clever to disguise this voter ID clause as a way to protect democracy when it actually, in an applied setting, stops more people who should vote than it does prevent voter fraud.

Because even if it's just a comcast bill that shows your (in wisconsin it's charter) address....it seemed to work for the vast majority 99.99% of people who voted honestly.

It's really an ingenious strategy...

1) cite voter fraud in a very vague or skewed way because we all know that 99.99% of people are against voter fraud

2) create a plan as a guise to prevent voter fraud (never actually say we're preventing a few dozen votes in fraud)

3) create plans to make access to these voter IDs difficult in some (very calculated) areas and use "budget" concerns as the excuse.

4) Make basic knowledge about how to get a proper voter ID intentionally vague

#4736 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

mitchejw wrote:

Here you have....if you scroll down far enough the distribution of Wisconsin state government representatives:

http://uselections.com/wi/wi.htm


Now....take a look at this....this just appears to be a basic breakdown of votes - not really an opinion

key paragraph:

For instance, Republicans received 49 percent of the 2.9 million votes cast in Wisconsin’s congressional races, but won five out of eight, or 62.5 percent, of the seats, according to the Center’s analysis. The Center analyzed unofficial 2012 results reported by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and official 2010 results from the state Government Accountability Board

This is a 2012 article about state government: http://wisconsinwatch.org/2012/11/2012- … -analysis/

this needs explanation....this is what you should focus on

#4737 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

Randall Flagg wrote:
AtariLegend wrote:

Law was changed in 2014 for stricter voter ID laws. Milwaukee turnout supposedly dropped by 41K alone http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati … story.html

Here's a story on it pre-election. https://www.thenation.com/article/a-90- … er-id-law/


From your article:

"Voter turnout in this year's presidential primary was the highest since 1972 with voter ID in place, so to now suggest turnout was down in the general election because of it is wrong," Evenson said. "We have made voting easy while ensuring it is hard to cheat. Lower turnout in the general election was true nationwide. It was not unique to Wisconsin or voter ID."

Albrecht acknowledged that some of the drop-off in turnout had to do with the candidates and less enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. He also did not have statistics detailing how many voters were turned away for not having the proper ID."

So we see a lower turnout compared to 2012 nationwide, but the article wants to blame voter ID in Wisconsin. It also points to low income areas of Milwaukee, which surprise, turned out nationwide in surprisingly lower numbers than they did in 2012.

Clinton was a bad candidate and represented everything people hate about D.C.  You think Clinton knows who Rogers is?  Think she's drinking a beer while eating some cheese talking about what model Harley she prefers? Milwaukee and Wisconsin in general is a bastion of white working class who heavily favored Trump.

This is why. If you guys go full retard and align yourselves with Warren and Sanders types for 2020, you'll have a repeat.  Quit looking to liberal elites who couldn't change their own oil. Accept that Clinton was such a shit candidate, half the country voted for the guy who hosted a reality TV show over her.

I don't interpret that quote the same way you do....it's where votes "disappeared" that matters...and I'm talking about state governments who get to create their own rules for voting systems....where is your evidence of "cheating" anyway? I have never seen any evidence...except that scattered republican voters who voted twice in the last 4 years. I didn't ever hear you condemn that RF...

Essentially what you're saying is my choice in this country is between Republican lite and Republican?

You say that about "liberal elite" but what about your precious conservative elites? We just elected the most elite of the elite!

I will not be put in the position of defending Hillary....

#4738 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

Here you have....if you scroll down far enough the distribution of Wisconsin state government representatives:

http://uselections.com/wi/wi.htm


Now....take a look at this....this just appears to be a basic breakdown of votes - not really an opinion

key paragraph:

For instance, Republicans received 49 percent of the 2.9 million votes cast in Wisconsin’s congressional races, but won five out of eight, or 62.5 percent, of the seats, according to the Center’s analysis. The Center analyzed unofficial 2012 results reported by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and official 2010 results from the state Government Accountability Board

This is a 2012 article about state government: http://wisconsinwatch.org/2012/11/2012- … -analysis/

#4739 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

Ok so....if you look deeper....the quote is slightly misleading and correlation doesn't mean causation....however here's what I have:

Essentially...prior to the election last week...300,000 REGISTERED voters in Wisconsin still had not obtained the proper voter ID. Bare in mind that while simultaneously requiring some of the most strict voter ID laws in the country, Scott (take credit for everything) Walker shut down an obscene number of DMVs....which are, I believe the best place to obtain a voter ID. I believe we can confirm easily that Trump won Wisconsin by about 30k. Let's bare in mind that the entire population of Wisconsin is about 5 million.

In addition, these voter IDs were supposed to be "free." There are some articles going back a year claiming that DMV employees were told not to share with people that voter IDs were "free."

The links I am sharing are to twitter feeds....which eventually lead back to, "The Nation" magazine. Pretty sure it's left leaning. But they have a guy born and raised in Wisconsin who has a pretty good reputation when it comes to this stuff....John Nichols. Who I have followed for many years.

http://www.snopes.com/300000-wisconsin- … r-id-laws/

#4740 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 518 weeks ago

Two things that concern me...

Gerrymandering and voter suppression. Laws...

I keep reading about government at the state level in states like Wisconsin and Michsgan - Democrats receive more votes than republicans by a sig. margin but the state houses are filled with republicans.

How does this not bother anyone?

Something like 300,000 people were denied the right to vote in Wisconsin based on the new rules. Trump won the state by 30,000.

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