You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
#4641 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
mitchejw wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:We are though. The constitution is quite clear every state has 2 senators and an amount of representatives based on population with no less than 1. If you want to start a discussion about dissolving the Senate and relying only on the House, I'll be interested in joining you. But until we amend the constitution, that is how it works.
I'm not talking about senators. EVs are based on population.
EVs are based on population through the amount of federal legislators in each state. The EV in each state is tied to how many senators and representatives they have. The amount of representatives each state has is based on their 10 year census. No state will have less than 3 and under our current system of 50 states, no state will ever exceed 391.
So there are several states that are overly and under represented. The entire population of California greatly exceeds that of Idaho, Montana, north and South Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Wyoming, Utah, Iowa, and Arizona combined.
#4642 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
mitchejw wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:Right, cause people in San Francisco aren't opining and trying to legislate laws that only effect Wyoming. Pelosi is really pushing for wolves to be introduced into downtown SF and not just by ranchers in the Rocky Mountain region.
Obama didn't just try to permanently prevent anyone from ever drilling off the Alaskan coast. (His edict won't hold up in court).
States are a thing. Wyoming's 3 EVs have no influence on Californians.
If we were consistently following the EC formula...Wyoming wouldn't even have 3 EVs.
We are though. The constitution is quite clear every state has 2 senators and an amount of representatives based on population with no less than 1. If you want to start a discussion about dissolving the Senate and relying only on the House, I'll be interested in joining you. But until we amend the constitution, that is how it works.
I'm not talking about senators. EVs are based on population.
#4643 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
misterID wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:Guess I'm not the only one who knows why the Democrats are suddenly against the electoral college:
Of gimme abfucking break. Bill Luffa O'Reilly. Yeah... Suddenly, as in 17 years they've been screaming against the electorate from the laser time the election was stolen from the winner. There's always a conspiracy. Some hidden agenda in the murky depths of the left... Who have no influence whatsoever. How about Republican state officials shutting down Democratic districts early on election day? Or the unfair redistricting? Old Luffa man ever talk about that?
Now Trump is literally doing pay to play. Give his sons charity a million bucks to talk to the president privately… what was he, and you guys railing about with The Clinton Foundation?
If this is true it should be immediately stopped and if any laws were broken they should be investigated. But where were you when Clinton received donations from half the people she met with as SoS? Is this a new concern or something you chose to remain silent on in the past? Or was it just you were completely unaware of it because the media wasn't interested in tarnishing the queen bee?
I don't even know if this is completely true...but I was aware...I just don't care...
Because Republicans- the people who took great exception - are the inventors of these business practices.
#4644 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
misterID wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:No, I don't support it because it favors Republicans. I favor it because that's what the constitution says and I like the concept of states. Look at how skewed California is in their voting in this past election. Almost 62% of the state voted for her whereas the nation as a whole was split almost 50/50. States have their own culture and beliefs, so just because California has ballooned the past 50 years or so, doesn't mean its culture should dictate how folks in Wyoming live. California alone accounts for 10% of the EC, so it's getting its fair representation in a system that recognizes states.
And this wouldn't even have been an issue if Clinton ran a competent campaign and stepped foot in Wisconsin and spent any time in PA and Michigan outside of Philly and Detroit.
It would have no influence on how people in Wyoming live. Jesus Christ, that's a weak ass, scared as shit way of thinking. I have a way better argument that the people in Wyoming shouldn't be dictating the way California and everyone else lives. Yes, she should have campaigned better, as I voiced, but she still won by three million votes. *President Trump is still acting like a moron, putting together one of the worst cabinets in history. Linda McMahon is getting a cabinet position. The woman who couldn't buy a legit political seat.... TWICE. But because her husband is one of his best friends... Cronyism at its best.
Right, cause people in San Francisco aren't opining and trying to legislate laws that only effect Wyoming. Pelosi is really pushing for wolves to be introduced into downtown SF and not just by ranchers in the Rocky Mountain region.
Obama didn't just try to permanently prevent anyone from ever drilling off the Alaskan coast. (His edict won't hold up in court).
States are a thing. Wyoming's 3 EVs have no influence on Californians.
If we were consistently following the EC formula...Wyoming wouldn't even have 3 EVs.
#4645 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
No, I don't support it because it favors Republicans. I favor it because that's what the constitution says and I like the concept of states. Look at how skewed California is in their voting in this past election. Almost 62% of the state voted for her whereas the nation as a whole was split almost 50/50. States have their own culture and beliefs, so just because California has ballooned the past 50 years or so, doesn't mean its culture should dictate how folks in Wyoming live. California alone accounts for 10% of the EC, so it's getting its fair representation in a system that recognizes states.
And this wouldn't even have been an issue if Clinton ran a competent campaign and stepped foot in Wisconsin and spent any time in PA and Michigan outside of Philly and Detroit.
I agree with a lot of this...it's shameful that she didn't come to my home state. How dare she take it for granted. I believe this was actually her campaign managers decision. I believe I read somewhere that Bill took great exception to all of this...but wasn't influential in changing the strategy. What's more egregious is that it seems these decisions were made to obtain. Blow out.
If you believe that logic about California then I hope you remain consistent when it comes to Texas. Easier to stay to consider, while not all that seriously at times, succeeding and becoming their own country. They are big enough to be able to do that. If they are part of the union, then it shouldn't matter if they have 1000 electoral votes, if you like the electoral college you like the formula that they use to determine Vote allocation even when California participates.
#4646 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Guess I'm not the only one who knows why the Democrats are suddenly against the electoral college:
Well, he is exactly right. This is why they want amnesty. Not because they care for the Mexicans but to lock up their vote. Very shameful.
Is it as shameful is the gerrymandering that has gone on at the state level over the past eight years? Is it a shameful as the consolidation of the angry white vote that Trump won on? Surely other demographics voted for Trump, but he had the angry white vote in his pocket from the get go.
I'm sure none of those things bother you because they help you win. I'm sure none of those things bother you because the ends justify the means for you. But I will not be called shameful for wanting to make voting easier not more difficult. I'm sure you will always find a way to justify not allowing people to vote that will vote against your cause. That will always be OK with you in the hypocritical Republican Party.
Again, I will go on record as a registered Democrat that I am not for abolishing the electoral college. However, if your political parties going to continue to restrict voting and make it more difficult for people, then I get more inclined to abolish it.
However, it must be admitted that the electoral college is arbitrary to some degree. In addition, as I've mentioned before in this thread, twice in my lifetime now has my candidate with the popular vote lost the election. You conservative Republicans don't give a shit about that because you been the beneficiary of the slight bias in the electoral college twice now in the last five elections. Not only does that not give you pause, you're proud of it as though the electoral college was there to make sure your political party wins regardless of the popular vote.
It's stupid. It's just plain stupid that you're unwilling to admit all of those faults listed above and then call Democrats shameful for wanting to abolish the electoral college.
#4647 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
You have to be a special kind of retarded to say "my culture sucks, so I'm going to bring in hordes of people who don't speak my language so they can change our culture." Yes, American culture is superior to all other cultures. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't be living here. But since I've traveled to every continent but Africa (soon to be fixed in April!) I'm a hell of a lot more qualified than you or other vacationers who spent a week in Paris and think they have a clue. We're at the point where displaying the American flag in school can be considered offensive. That's going full fucking retard.
What's full fucking retard is to not understand what American culture is....it's a conglomeration of everyone else. It's the best and worst, it's the good and the bad and the ugly of the pretty much every other country in the world.
You have far too much hubris for me RF...I've never left north America and I don't need to, to know that.
#4648 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
Smoking Guns wrote:Do you guys prefer this map?
http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-conte … ty-map.png
And ID, THEIR VOTE DOES COUNT, NY and California both went for HRC.
States should not be voting, the people should. You know as well as I do a a lot of Democrats and center left independents in Alabama and Tennessee don't vote specifically because their votes don't mean shit. Election day sucks for me.
I don't have a problem with the EC for the most part...but no that map doesn't accurately depict things...if you want to be forthright with your depiction, then counties should be proportionate to their population not physical size.
#4649 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
They don't speak english.....contribute and adapt to our culture... I have no interests in bringing in poor foreigners who aren't interested in becoming American, only living under the comfort America provides.
You're describing my ancestors when they first arrived....they didn't know english...
I think this is an old argument made by birthers made since the beginning of time. I think you need accept that people bringing their culture here changes our culture as much as it does theirs.
I care that they adhere to our laws
I think you care about the laws that only benefit you. No one here is arguing that they shouldn't pony up and pay their fair share in addition to following our laws...but illegals are here now. You can do one of two things: 1) you can ship them back to where they came from OR 2) you accept the ones that are here and find them a path to citizenship so they can start paying fair share and adhering to the laws.
I think in the end though, most conservatives don't want them to contribute....they just want them gone. Because there is one thing a conservative never wants...and that's change.
You said it yourself,
I care that they... adapt to our culture.
And I think there lies the most telling statement of all...it's your culture that you believe is superior and that everyone else should adhere to...I can only guess as to why...but this is exactly why the rest of the world finds Americans so annoying. Maybe because 'you were here first' or 'America is great at making money.' Whatever the case, this is exactly the aspect of American culture that I find repulsive. The hubris of the average American, the Khardashian culture, it's disturbing to me to see the lack of self-awareness that seems to be sense of pride of Americans.
#4650 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 513 weeks ago
misterID wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Do you guys prefer this map?
http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-conte … ty-map.png
And ID, THEIR VOTE DOES COUNT, NY and California both went for HRC.
States should not be voting, the people should. You know as well as I do a a lot of Democrats and center left independents in Alabama and Tennessee don't vote specifically because their votes don't mean shit. Election day sucks for me.
And you don't think that's true of republicans in NY or CA? The rules are based on the EC, so the candidates campaigned based on the EC. If the popular vote was how they handled the election, both Trump and Clinton would have campaigned differently. And yes ID, admitting millions of Hispanics and giving citizenship to their children is how California went from Reagan to solid blue. Or are we supposed to be ok with the left desiring millions of unskilled laborers dropping off babies so they can't be deported.
Dropping off babies?
At the end of the day, I find it ironic that a free-market capitalist is pissed about somebody who is willing to do it cheaper and better.
