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#4591 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

They don't speak english.....contribute and adapt to our culture... I have no interests in bringing in poor foreigners who aren't interested in becoming American, only living under the comfort America provides.

You're describing my ancestors when they first arrived....they didn't know english...

I think this is an old argument made by birthers made since the beginning of time. I think you need accept that people bringing their culture here changes our culture as much as it does theirs.

I care that they adhere to our laws

I think you care about the laws that only benefit you. No one here is arguing that they shouldn't pony up and pay their fair share in addition to following our laws...but illegals are here now. You can do one of two things: 1) you can ship them back to where they came from OR 2) you accept the ones that are here and find them a path to citizenship so they can start paying fair share and adhering to the laws.

I think in the end though, most conservatives don't want them to contribute....they just want them gone. Because there is one thing a conservative never wants...and that's change.

You said it yourself,

I care that they... adapt to our culture.

And I think there lies the most telling statement of all...it's your culture that you believe is superior and that everyone else should adhere to...I can only guess as to why...but this is exactly why the rest of the world finds Americans so annoying. Maybe because 'you were here first' or 'America is great at making money.' Whatever the case, this is exactly the aspect of American culture that I find repulsive. The hubris of the average American, the Khardashian culture, it's disturbing to me to see the lack of self-awareness that seems to be sense of pride of Americans.

#4592 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

Randall Flagg wrote:
misterID wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

Do you guys prefer this map?

http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-conte … ty-map.png

And ID, THEIR VOTE DOES COUNT, NY and California both went for HRC.

States should not be voting, the people should. You know as well as I do a a lot of Democrats and center left independents in Alabama and Tennessee don't vote specifically because their votes don't mean shit. Election day sucks for me.


And you don't think that's true of republicans in NY or CA?  The rules are based on the EC, so the candidates campaigned based on the EC.  If the popular vote was how they handled the election, both Trump and Clinton would have campaigned differently.  And yes ID, admitting millions of Hispanics and giving citizenship to their children is how California went from Reagan to solid blue.  Or are we supposed to be ok with the left desiring millions of unskilled laborers dropping off babies so they can't be deported.

Dropping off babies?

At the end of the day, I find it ironic that a free-market capitalist is pissed about somebody who is willing to do it cheaper and better.

#4593 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

Do you guys prefer this map?

http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-conte … ty-map.png

And ID, THEIR VOTE DOES COUNT, NY and California both went for HRC.

States should not be voting, the people should. You know as well as I do a a lot of Democrats and center left independents in Alabama and Tennessee don't vote specifically because their votes don't mean shit. Election day sucks for me.

I'm sure every republican in California and ny voted though, right ID?  The level of ignorance should be stunning, but sadly it isn't. More than a month later and you're still not even making an effort to understand why what happened actually happened and are wasting all this energy on how stupid anyone that voted for trump is. Ironic if you stop to think about it, but stopping to think about things isn't really a liberal strong point.

You've been saying that since the election, as though there's some profound epiphany we are all supposed to have about Donald Trump being president. What is there to understand? It's not rocket science. People like charismatic people no matter how substance-less they are.

#4594 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

The maps are not misleading though. The entire point is tho show exactly why we have the electoral college. 2.6 of Hillary's 2.8M popular vote advantage can be attributed to JUST her difference in LA and NYC. Two cities. That's it.

Every single person in LA or NYC didn't vote for Clinton either... the map is showing only 51% and more because 50% would cancel out the other vote and less than 50% wouldn't matter when trying to show who won what.

It is entirely misleading....the map disproportionately weights counties with nobody in them. NYC and LA are the two largest cities in the county. People living on top of each other in physically small but highly dense populations.

It's like your saying that if your live in the city your votes should count less because we live so close together.

#4595 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

a map from the American catholic.....wow.....who gives a shit?

Get used to it because you're never going to get 38 states to pass an amendment changing it. California shouldn't dictate the election.

I'm still not sure what you're arguing here....is this the beginning of an argument that basically states the physical size of your state should dictate your influence on the election? If so, Montana and Alaska should have 100 electoral votes.

California has 55 EVs....and they deserve them all.

Furthermore, Hillary got 3 million more popular votes than Drumpf...whether that matters in the EC or not is not debatable....but it sure does matter in general.

Are you purporting that losing the popular vote by that margin but still winning the EC makes this an obvious mandate for President Drumpf?

Are you suggesting that somehow California's population, larger than any other state, shouldn't be allocated the number of EVs it has? That a representative democracy would be better served if they weren't proportionately represented?

Are you arguing that the misleading map from Catholic America...the map that treats the physical size of the country/state/county as the metric for showing you how the country voted. The same map that shows Cook County, Illinois to be an ant hill but the state of South Dakota and Wyoming as mountains next to said ant hill....when the combined populations of both states are about 10% of cook county AT BEST!

C'mon man...show me those critical thinking skill.....

#4596 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

PaSnow wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

I said when Comey released that letter a week before the election that it had to be something major, because I found it unfathomable he would do that with nothing new to provide.  I said that on this forum and have since stated he should resign for that stunt.  How much it impacted the election is impossible to say, but there is no denying it did.  We have the same thing here now with the CIA.  If they have something, brief Congressional leadership and the President behind closed doors if it's that sensitive.  But if our two major intelligence agencies are going to start playing politics to upset the American people, that's a hell of a lot bigger problem than if Russia leaked FACTUAL and ACCURATE emails from the DNC.


While I do think it was political (obviously), Hillary does share in the blame.  Having emails on the laptop that ended up in the Anthony Weiner probe does show a lax carelessness of her stuff.  Myb they weren't full on work related or confidential, but it's still pretty careless.  That more than most other things offended me.

I do find it amusing to alot of Republicans Russia previously was still the big bad enemy, dating back to the Cold War memories they couldn't let go. Even moreso than China, North Korea, Middle East.  Now however, suddenly Russia is like an ally for us to them, and now more of a good guy.  Like wtf?

Exactly, what's good is bad....what's bad is good....whatever gets you elected...

I don't think Republicans can win a straightforward election show anymore....that's why it needs to be this Jerry Springer circus of misdirection and manipulation. Just a shit ton of smoke and mirrors until we all forget what we were talking about....meanwhile the billionaires are cutting themselves checks from the government.

#4597 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

I've been reading some about what's been going on in North Carolina...

I have to come to realization that this is the new world we live in...there is little to no common ground anymore. The hatred between Republicans and Democrats is deep.

I guess my question is...how can Republicans tell Dems to stfu at the federal level but do shit like this at the state level.

Republicans are brazenly and unapologetically just changing the rules all over the place to ensure victory at all costs. From friendships with Putin and Russia to stripping a democratic governor of many of his powers is just our right ruthless. There is no holds bared anymore. There are no rules.

I cannot, with a clean conscious, cozy up to these types of tactics. Maybe they've always been around...I don't know...but to pretend anything about this is Christian, or moral in any religion, is outright delusional.

Furthermore, to pretend this country we live in is a Democracy is ludicrous. I am really disenchanted by the tactics taken by Republicans at the state level in Kansas, Wisconsin, Michigan, and now North Carolina. This game is so rigged.

Once Trump won, all the sudden there was nothing to question about the system anymore. He banged his drum and whined and pissed and moaned about the unfairness to him. Then, when he won....he did a complete 180.

Scarier, maybe I have to admit that this is a great reflection of the American people. We don't truly believe in anything, we truly don't stand for anything except for business interests that keep our standard of living as high as possible. Everything else can fall to the wayside. Ethics, morality, and doing the right thing turns into a high school he said, she said popularity contest.

If you would allow me, I would like to share some of the experiences I have had in business over the last two years.

My first business, I had a business partner who turned out to be a closet homosexual. While this is oversimplifying things a bit, in 2012 I was faced with an ultimatum. If we wanted our overwhelmingly successful business partnership to continue, I was going to have to consider being involved in a homosexual, highly controlling relationship with a deeply troubled (more than I ever knew) gay man. The choice was obvious to me, I needed out. And I watched our business slowly burn over the period of about 15 months. At the time, our business was grossing round $2-2.5 million per year.

I ventured out on my own after that...and something just as disgusting occurred in the summer of 2015. As I was just reaching something comparable with my new business, my right hand man (woman) in this case was engaging what I know now to be 11 alleged counts of fraud under my business name. We begin litigation early next year. This includes but is not limited to, creating her own LLC, slowly but surely transferring assets to said LLC, creating a new/fake TIN/EIN, double billing insurance companies...and this list goes on. She funded European vacations for her family members.

This has been my experience in business to date. Absolutely ruthless, selfish, entitled behavior with absolutely no remorse for anyone and no concern for anything but one's self interest.

I wanted to believe that these were great anomalies, and I was just young and stupid and not really sure how to protect myself. I feel like with Trump's business practices, that this in commonplace in this country. People fuck each other over without batting an eyelash. Those are the winners in this country. We treat them like heroes, giving no thought to the carnage left behind by these predator practices. 

These experiences and the people we hold up on pedestals on this country make me feel extremely alienated. I do not want to believe that this is what America is...maybe I'm the fool for holding out hope this long in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary.

#4598 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

You don't think the DOW and $ have anything to do with Trump.  It's just a coincidence they jumped after he was elected?  What the fuck has Obama done for business?  He's done nothing but create more red tape the past 8 years.

You're right...everything good that's ever happened over the last 8 years couldn't possibly account for what Trump has done in his 0 days in office.


I don't think you know how the stock market and financial systems work.  So to flip it, what has Obama done that has led to these increases that occurred the day after Trump was elected.  Who do you think is a better President for business and the stock market?  The answer is self evident.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'business.' If you mean, reckless, deregulated, unethical, immoral financial philosophies....then you're right...Trump will be great for the stock market.

But responsible? Responsible and accountable are two things he's never been good at...

I don't care about the stock market anyway....it's like going to the casino...it doesn't make any sense....you want to talk about emotional behavior....the stock market is where it's all at...

#4599 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

Now the FBI joins the CIA in support of their allegations...

Now conservatives have to disparage another agency that disagrees with their narrative.

#4600 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 456 weeks ago

Randall Flagg wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

I still fail to see how in 3 months time because the economy is great it's entirely all Trump (not the President who REBOUNDED the economy the past 8 years after the terrible disaster that was our last President) all the while knowing in 4 years the economy could very well be in the toilet again?!!


Definitely pre-emptive thinking. Let's calm down a bit, shall we.


You don't think the DOW and $ have anything to do with Trump.  It's just a coincidence they jumped after he was elected?  What the fuck has Obama done for business?  He's done nothing but create more red tape the past 8 years.

You're right...everything good that's ever happened over the last 8 years couldn't possibly account for what Trump has done in his 0 days in office.

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