Depends on who you define as fans and what you define as giving up. I haven't "given up" in that I still visit this site nearly every day.

But, if you look at the number of fans visiting the gnr boards at its peak, or even before the july/nov peak, and look at that number now...yeah, I'd say most of them/us have given up.

As for people who don't visit the boards, most of them didn't care about Chinese Democracy, and even fewer care about a tour.

I have no idea why Axl insists on shooting himself in the foot every time he turns around.

Ronartest -- great, great username.

My thoughts:

Fernando was without question the original source of the MSL leaks. His actions and all the evidence point to him. But at this point, I doubt his mistakes would have any consequences for Beta. Beta is here to stay, and virtually nothing would put her job in jeopardy.

As for the 9 song leaks, a couple interesting theories have surfaced.

1. Merck. With the 2006 debacles, and apparently some bad blood between the GnR camp and Merck, its plausible. The one argument I've heard against this is that it would stain his credibility with future bands/projects.

At this point, I don't think anyone involved with the Chinese Democracy project and Axl could come out looking like the bad guy to anyone in the industry.

2. Someone on this forum found the "Barbara ann cogill" link on facebook, didn't they? Who was she married to? That was definitely something interesting, but then again, wouldn't the FBI have gone after that right away? Skwerl knows who gave him the 9 songs, and I think we'll find out eventually.

Also, I definitely think the 9 songs should've been used as leverage for more songs -- but then again, what about the anti quiet leaks wasn't handled poorly?

Between all the vitriol between UMG and Axl, not to mention the tremendous anticipation for the CD, it could've been any number of people, but the fact that Skwerl is keeping it hush hush for now seems to point to someone higher up.

I liked the 9 song leak more than the album because it was effectively the first time I had heard the album, not because the songs were better.

The only song I can even see a case for being better in the leaks is the title track, just because it's so different. Some people preferred the stripped down, bass heavy verse over the final product, but I'm not one of those people.

ITW, IRS, and The Blues definitely improved, I have a hard time seeing how people could disagree with that. TWAT benefited from more guitars, better CD quality sound, but not from the cookie monster shit.

Anyways, if we'd heard the album first and then the 9 songs, none of these people would be proclaiming their love for the leaks.

You win.

Then Danzig came up, pushed Axl, and got punched out.