Bill Brasky wrote:

Shacklermyrye wrote:

I obviously don't know that Tonto it is toothpuller but I  do wonder if the noise could be there as a shot or way of making fun of Izzy maybe.

The first time I heard about Toothpuller came from before the DATS had been discovered..

The following appeared in Metalsludge in 2006. There was no way of really backing the veracity of it until the DATS were discovered years later. If someone made up the Dizzy quotes then they would have had to guess that there was a song called Toothpuller (which is unlikely) Thanks to the DAT photos we can say that the song did exist, that it did have vocals & that at least Dizzy thought it was awful...

“Izzy used to be a great songwriter- his contributions to Guns N’ Roses first album are phenomenal. But, its almost like the guy has lost the fire… I mean I saw the guy a couple years back in the studio… and he was showing me a song he had just written called "Toothpuller" – it was literally about him visiting the dentist and getting a tooth pulled out. [Dizzy then sings some of the lyrics] I mean… this is a guy who wrote some badass songs and now he’s writing about getting his tooth pulled… I mean come on… can you imagine Axl singing that live?’(Dizzy https://metalsludge.tv/classic/?p=30945 )

“in April 1995, Duff calls again: “I’m trying to write new songs for the next GN’R record. Come lend me a hand.” It’d been five years since I’d left Guns, but I told myself, “Well shit, after all, why not?” Duff and I wrote ten songs in one week, and also made demos of them. And I thought, “It’s so easy.” When you work with someone like Duff, who loves music in the same way you do, everything becomes simple.” (French Izzy interview, 2001)

Some other comments on the time....

“He's been writing; he wrote some stuff with Duff. He wants to write songs, but he doesn't wanna deal with the whole thing. And it took me a while to finally get to the point where I couldn't handle it either, y'know? He wants to write material, but he's not really sure what he wants to do. He's so laid back. He doesn't want to deal with any pressure. Izzy does what he wants to do.” (Slash Metal Hammer November 1995)

“We recorded 10 songs in eight days. It got me excited about music again. I realized how easy the whole process could be. Those sessions were fun and painless. We just had a great time.”(Izzy Los Angeles Daily News, March 20, 1998)

“I'm using a Music Man Stingray. I started using it onstage. I've always liked these basses. Actually, when we were trying to do the Guns album I broke this bass out, and it just sounded amazing. It's bigger and fatter sounding. (Duff Hit  parader June 1999)

Dizzy quote is just stupid.
Saying Izzy used to be greag song writer but isn't now ? Coming from Mr Bongos that is hilarious.

Night Train is about shit malt iquor and was written by Izzy with Slash.
So a song about getting your tooth removed doesn't seem that crazy.

Also notice how Izzy worked on Velvet Revolver's first album Contraband but not on their second album Libertad which has a noticeable drop in quality ?

Izzy wasn't the best live but he's a helluva a song writer.

The fact Tooth Puller, Machine Gun and Down By The Ocean are Izzy and Duff songs is good for the fans and the band.

@troccoli any help my friend on what Machine Gun became hypothetically of course ?

I'm enjoying this conversation, it is insightful and i believe the community bouncing ideas and sharing information will lead to us discovering more about these tracks.

My opinion is that the vault is not empty and all future releases will come from the vault, songs that Slash or Duff worked on orginally are likely to be released.

A example of that is Hardschool.
Which i believe to be about Izzy.
It was the second release from the reunion era version of gnr.

@james where are you at brother ?

It's a shame we will probably never hear those DATs. There AMPEX 456's which are prone to sticky shed syndrome, so at least they will have been baked and backed up now they have been found. I'd be more interested in the ADAT's that both Sorum and Fink have spoken about separately, recording onto VHS tapes is a weird thing that happened in the 90's. Sorum mentioned in his book they had multiple machines linked together, I believe at The Complex.

I went and we played Guns songs and some cover songs and eventually I was bringing my ADAT tapes I was working on in my apartment.
There were so many. Some of them were picked for parts and some of them were recorded to the finish line and still exist somewhere. I don't know where. Robin Fink https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/in … k%20appeal.

To my knowledge no ADATs ever made there way out into the wild, presumably all in Iron Mountain now.

When listening the first time, I was shocked they kept that Casio keyboard sound. Sweet baby Jesus.

Other than that, it's pretty good. Slash must have really liked it because he brought his A game to the solo.

Like all the other songs, it sounds like an unfinished song that was simply polished and released.

The post reunion years have revealed the true meaning of the A and B lists....

A list - Actual finished songs going on Chinese Democracy

B list - All the half finished songs, instrumentals, and fragments

Back in the prime years of the CD saga, fans assumed the A list was all the massive epics and the B list all the rockers.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/mVrge6UXfQsA … -wrong.gif

Bill Brasky wrote:

Blackstar wrote:

I'm saying that maybe Duff has that particular DAT with Down By The Ocean but we can't be sure of that, because he had apparently lost some of the other DATs from the same sessions that were found in that storage space, which may be an indication that he hadn't kept any of those tapes.

I'm also saying that regardless of whether Duff has that DAT or not, Down By The Ocean might not even be from those sessions.

But let's say that Duff has the dats. How would that be related to Nothing being Down By The Ocean?

Well if it was co written by Duff it's more likely to be used by Axl since Duff is a member in gnr and the partnership.
Giving Izzy money for his contributions or just reworking the song from Izzy parts would eliminate his writing credentials no ?

How is Monsters Soul Monster ?
I don't believe it is but since it's named Monsters and a lyric has the word Soul in it it must be Soul Monster according to your pal Soulmonster and the mygnr folks correct ?

Btw i have proven Marco Beltrami memory on what songs he worked not to be reliable if you were planning going down that route i can happily direct you or copy paste the information here.

Well Nothin' has the line Down By The Sea in the song isn't that the same criteria ?

Did you know in Webster's dictionary Monstrosity literally means Monster in the english language ?

Or that Guns N' Roses had 2 songs back to back on uyi 1 with garden in it !
Track 11 The Garden  Track 12 Garden Of Eden. To quote Johnny Carson...Wild Stuff ! ( that's for you James)

I was told by a source a week ago Nothin'  was Down By The Ocean and until Sp1at who i respect and i know is reputable said it wasn't it was making sense to me.

Is that fair, can you see it from my perspective ?

I'm not 100% right and have been wrong with information but people forget who first told them about Children Of The Revolution and many other things.

Btw in hindsight doesn't seem like Nothin' and Atlas were supposed to be released on June 6th 2025 to support the tour and on the 40th anniversary of gnr first show ?

I don't understand the Soul Monster/Monsters debate. Yes, the fact that it has the phrase "you stole my soul" along with the word monster is quite decisive evidence, not sure why that's being laughed off. But Axl's own words even further solidify the theory. His description of the mean bridge and the Sabbath vibe also match perfectly. Sure, Monstrosity could turn out to be Soul Monster, but there's nothing to indicate that, especially given the mountain of evidence connecting Monsters-Soul Monster. If Monstrosity being a variation of the word monster is an indication it might be, then that also further makes the case for Monsters being SM given both words are used in the song.

Let's be honest here, a lot of this theorizing can be very easily attributed to hoping that the instrumental we originally thought was SM (Me & My Elvis) did not go unused. It's certainly a shame if it wasn't, but Elvis sounds nothing like Black Sabbath. Have no idea what guys like you like and Gordon Comstock are talking about when you say that. It's industrial rock in the same vein as Finck's contribution to the Ghost Of Mars soundtrack.

Bill Brasky wrote:

Blackstar wrote:

(Re: Izzy and VR, there apparently Weiland rewrote whatever lyrics Izzy had written on the songs they used from those sessions. From what they have said, they changed the shit out of those songs written with Izzy because Weiland didn't like them).

Couldn't Axl have done the same thing ?

In theory, yes, but the Nothing demo sounded like a song at its very early stages, like a song being "born" and not as something that was under rearrangement.

Anyway, all this talk is kind of "academic", since sp1at said he's sure Nothing is not Down By The Ocean.