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#11 Guns N' Roses » Thank god this thing's finally out » 865 weeks ago
- gnrfan1987-present
- Replies: 3
When looking at the liner notes for Chinese Democracy I can't help thinking it's a miracle this album is finally officially done and in stores. Reason: It seems to me 90% of these songs were more or less done back in 2002 (maybe sooner) but Axl has been continously screwing with the tracks (overdubbing) for the past 6-7 years. The primary vocals sound like they were recorded a decade ago.
The liner notes reflect an Axl Rose who marked the latest departure of a GnR band member and the arrival of a new one (ex: guitarist) by deciding to redo every track and basically start from sratch. Examples on the official CD are replacing Brain's drum track on the title song and others with Frank Ferrer. (A shame since Brain talked about how hard he worked to sound like Josh Freese!) And deleting Buckethead's solo on "Shackler's" (the guy's own composition!) with one by Bumblefoot. Considering the rate in which people leave GnR, this practice of overdubbing new parts everytime a new band member joins could have gone on until the day Axl dies.
And even though these tracks are finally done and out there for mass consumption, I get the feeling Axl is really pissed about having to finally let these 14 songs out of the vaults. If he had his way he'd probably be back in the studio, adding another half dozen overdubs to "Better" or tripling the vocal tracks on "Sorry." He's probably reading the reviews, thinking, "yeah maybe I should have dropped 'Scraped' and replaced it with 'Silkworms'." And poor Andy Wallace the guy who had to mix these songs. Imagine putting together 6 different guitar parts on "Time." The guy deserved a special Grammy for his work on CD.
My main point is the basic songs on CD are all really good. Most have great hooks and clever lyrics. And the core band from 2001-2002 was excellent. It's a shame Axl couldn't have just left well enough alone. Instead he took the piss out of classic songs like "Better," "The Blues," "There Was A Time" "Catcher In The Rye" and "IRS" with his constant remixing, unnecessary overdubbing and annoying sound effects. The final album has way too much Chris Pitman. The band should change its name to "Pitman n Rose."
I remember Slash mentioning that if we could hear the basic demos from the Use Your Illusion albums before Axl started toying with the tunes in post production we'd be blown away. Somebody should take away Axl's protools access. Like I said it's an absolute miracle Axl finally let this thing be released. I get a strong feeling it could have been put out in 2004 and the reviews would be killer (more so from the fans than critics) and that nobody would be complaining about "overkill" when it comes to ProTools and the "digital editing" that is constantly mentioned in the liner notes.
Hopefully one day someone will create a "raw" version of the album. A "Chinese Democracy Naked" deal showcasing the tracks stripped of Chris Pitman's "subbass," "subdrums" and "sub guitar." Whatever the hell those are.
#12 Re: Guns N' Roses » GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread » 865 weeks ago
First off, let me say I can't believe this thing's actually been released. I honestly thought CD would never come out. I'm reminded of that Izzy Stradlin tune off UYI II: "It's been 14 years of silence. 14 years of pain. 14 years that are gone forever. And I'll never have again." But oh well, enough about the past. Here's my 2 cents on the disc:
RATING SYSTEM:
**** Classic
*** Great
** Poor
* Awful
CHINESE DEMOCRACY
Love the drums in the intro. Helps to build the anticipation. Always have liked this song. I do wish Axl would have added on a real chorus. If he'd sang "Chinese Democracy" somewhere that would be memorable. I think this final version is a BIG improvement over the leaked demo from earlier this year. Definitely seems completely done. ****
SHACKLER'S REVENGE
A 3 1/2 minute shot of pure adrenaline. May not be the greatest song ever made but its definitely exciting. Love Axl's vocals on this. And his chant over the guitar solo. I've always been a fan of late 90's industrial/techno rock which is when this was probably recorded. Buckethead never ceases to amaze. ***
BETTER
I've listened to this song in so many different forms since 2006 (several demos, live) that I'm honestly sick of it. I still like the "I should have known you're crazy" part though. Catchiest song on the album without a doubt. Too bad Axl let the fucker leak. I personally prefer the 2006 original demo. Before all the overdubs and additional programming that is unnecessary IMO. 2006 Demo **** CD Version: ***
STREET OF DREAMS
Along with "Better" I wore this song out since Axl first played it live a half decade ago. I also like the 2007 demo better. And I wish it was still called "The Blues." 2002 Live Version **** CD Version ***
IF THE WORLD
What a pleasant surprise. A lot better than the leaked demo. The programming and additional mixing actually works for this song. And Axl's vocals are less abrasive. Love Buckethead's guitar playing. ****
THERE WAS A TIME
The 2006 demo worked fine for me. Not sure about the finished product. One too many overdubs for me. The core song is catchy and Robin's solo has always blown me away. Axl really should have left well enough alone. 2007 Version **** CD Version ***1/2
CATCHER IN THE RYE
Oh man, what was Axl thinking with this one? The original late 90's version was perfect with that killer Brian May solo. This version sounds like a really bad remix. The original had a certain charm, even if it did sound dated. But this new one is just a mess. 2006 Demo: ***1/2 CD Version: **
SCRAPED
Not exactly what I was hoping for. With a title like "Scraped" I was hoping for an industrial/heavy metal type track. This song does have a few interesting moments. And it's brand new which is always a nice surprise for a GnR fan. As far as "Don't you try to stop us now" lyric by Axl I can't help smiling. No one's been stopping Axl since 1994 except himself. **1/2
RIAD N THE BEDOUINS
Never really cared for this song. Works as an instrumental but the lyrics are just too bizarre. Love the extended intro though. Like "The Immigrant Song" on acid. Ultimately a failed experiment. **
SORRY
Ah this is what we've been waiting 14 years for. A true epic. What an amazing song. Love the Pink Floyd elements. And Axl's lyrics are very straight forward and direct. Which is what always made GnR great. ****
I.R.S.
Again, the original demo version was fine by me. The overdubs are ok I guess. It's just a solid, catchy song. Would make for a great single. ****
MADAGASCAR
Another song I'm burnt out on. I think this is a truly epic track. Quite original IMO. I just listened to the live & demo versions way too many times. 2002 Live Version **** CD Version: ***
THIS I LOVE
Ah, the infamous "This I Love" which we've heard about since the mid 90's. The sequel to "Estranged." Definitely missing the contributions of Slash, Duff, Izzy and Matt who kept "November Rain" and "Estranged" from becoming pure sap, which this song sounds like. Has some interesting ideas but is definitely NOT a Guns n Roses song. **1/2
PROSTITUTE
I love this track. The chorus is great. Haunting and dramatic. The ending gives me chills. Amazing. Stays in your head. ****
In the end, I think this is a solid album and am glad Axl finally let us hear it. I don't think it will do anything to hurt the Guns n Roses legacy. But I don't think it will be a revolutionary record like Appetite for Destruction. I think if Axl could have added a few more songs like "Better" and "I.R.S." the disc might be more commercially successful. All in all, it's a fun listen. And is definitely different than anything out there today.
#13 Guns N' Roses » Couple questions/comments about album » 867 weeks ago
- gnrfan1987-present
- Replies: 41
First off let me say I can't believe CD is finally being released. I'm proud of Axl for finally getting the thing done and for his management giving the album the promotional push it deserves.
However, when looking at the track list I can't help feeling, is that it? 'Where's "Seven," "Oklahoma," "General," "Thyme" and the other dozen or so unreleased tracks we've heard about the last 10 years? I personally was hoping CD would be a 2 disc set. With Disc 1 featuring nothing but unheard music And Disc 2 featuring the stuff that leaked. I mean, in 1991 after only a 3 year wait we got a 2 CD "Use Your Illusion set" featuring 2 1/2 hours of music. And now after waiting 17 years all we get is 14 tracks at around 70 minutes.
I personally think Axl should have included all 23 songs he mentioned back in 2006 on Eddie Trunk's show. Plus "Oh My God," "Silkworms" and everything else "in the vaults." He could also include some alternate takes & remixes. (UYI had 2 versions of "Dont' Cry") Reward the fans for our loyalty and patience.
As far as what we are actually getting in 2 weeks, I love the track running order. How the album goes from hard to soft, back to hard and then soft again. Its like an industrial/epic ballad concept album in the end.
I'm looking forward to the 23rd just because there's finally going to be a "Guns n Roses: Chinese Democracy" available officially. Never thought I'd see the day. Unfortunately, I feel like I've heard the entire album already minus the 3 new songs which I've refused to download. Here's my breakdown of the album:
TRACKS I'vE LISTENED TO WAY TOO MANY TIMES SINCE 2006 AND AM HONESTLY SICK OF: Chinese Democracy, Street Of Dreams/The Blues, Madagascar, Riad, Better, There Was A Time, I.R.S., Catcher In The Rye (feel like all those songs are 2 to 7 years old)
TRACKS I STILL ENJOY
Shackler's Revenge, Prostitute, If The World (sort of, Axl's vocals on this are an acquired taste)
TRACKS I HAVEN'T HEARD YET
Sorry, Scraped, This I Love
Of course it's my fault for downloading the leaked demos the last 2 years and listening to them over and over. I have to say I've loved all them initially. (Except "If The World") For fans who haven't heard of any of the 14 tracks, it will be interesting to hear their reaction after the 23rd. Even most music critics have already heard more than half of Chinese Democracy.
#14 Re: Guns N' Roses » RUMOR: Best Buy buys 3 million CD cd's upfront? » 871 weeks ago
I heard about the 3 million album advanced order on E! They were saying Axl is a financial genius because that deal makes sure he will turn a profit on the album even if it tanks commercially.
Only downside with a mass order like that is you run the risk of following in KISS's footsteps. In 1978 they shipped 1 million copies of each of the solo albums to guarantee they would all go platinum. Problem was they basically flooded record stores and KISS became overexposed as a result. In the end the solo LP's ended up in the bargain bins.
Hopefully that won't happen with Chinese Democracy. With $7.99 used copies of the CD available at every used music store in America for the next 30 years. But if the deal's true my hates off to Irving and Axl for pulling it off. Without Azoff we might NEVER have heard an official version of this album. Because Geffen & Axl may never have been able to figure out a way to turn a profit.
#15 Re: Guns N' Roses » My appologies to Axl and all the believers. » 871 weeks ago
All right I'm a big cat and I can admit when I am wrong. And I did not believe CD will come out in 08 much less on Nov 23rd. So I have to offer Axl my appologies for making fun of him, also to Azoff for doubting him and thinking that sadly even he couldn't pull it off. I was wrong. And I appologize to all the Axl believers. For once you were right and I was wrong. Now we'll all be enjoying CD or will it be CD 1, 2 and 3? Can't wait for Nov 23rd and yes I will buy it cause I changed my opinion on the skwerl thing a few weeks ago.
Don't apologize to Axl or anyone until November 23rd comes around and you actually have Chinese Democracy in your hands. Seriously I've been burned so many times by phony release dates for this album I won't believe it's out until I see it in a Best Buy store.
Honestly I am cautiously optimistic the wait is nearly over. However I haven't marked my day minder "Nov 23rd: GnR album release" because I'm scared I will jinx it! I remember in 2006 counting down the last 11 Tuesdays in the year only to feel like a jackass when the album didn't drop.
Like has been said on other posts, I'd feel 100% better if Axl or management would post an announcement on the official site confirming the Best Buy deal and the 11/23 release date. I think basically this wall of silence from Axl is one last "FU" to all his fans regarding this "15 years in the making" record. As in, I'll give you the album, but I'm not announcing jack shit. And I'm only putting it out if I'm guaranteed 3 million albums sold on day one at Best Buy.
At this point, I don't care what Axl does. He can continue to say nothing to the press or the fans. As long as CD is released. So GnR fans can move on with our lives.
#16 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy Was Never Meant To Be Heard » 872 weeks ago
Interesting article and well written. I guess the author is trying to say that since Chinese Democracy is about to be released & the economy is crashing, the apocalypse is upon us. That the world is about to implode. That Chinese Democracy like The Who's Lifehouse or the Beach Boys version of Smile was never meant to be heard.
I must admit that if someone told me a year ago that CD was going to be released and we'd be on the verge of another Great Depression I'd say they were crazy on both counts.
Seriously though I think this is the last time Axl will be able to cause this kind of anticipation with regards to the album from the likes of MTV & the rest of the mainstream media. If he fails to deliver this time, I seriously doubt we'll EVER get to hear this album. And by the point it does come out (probably posthumously) we'll all be dead or too old to give a shit. And the media will no longer care at all. If Axl backs out again, Irving will fire him and he'll be back to sqaure one. With the band and Chinese Democracy back into the great abyss. That's why I think its November 25th, 2008 or never...
#17 Re: Guns N' Roses » Who's still listening to the leaks & SR? » 873 weeks ago
I got tired of most of the songs. I still listen TWAT, CD and OMG once a week.
Yeah I wore out Better, IRS & TWAT when they first leaked in 2006. I even listened to the instrumental versions. Along with the 2002 live versions of Blues/Madagascar/CD I guess I've heard these songs too many times. I really wish Axl would have just dropped the album back in 06.
I still enjoy the extended "Chinese Democracy" with the long intro. It's fun to listen to while driving. I prefer the original demos of TWAT, IRS and Better. And the live versions of Blues, Madagascar & Riyadh aren't that different from the studio ones. "If The World" has its moments. But Axl's vocals get on my nerves. "Song #2" has a few brilliant changes but overall fails. And "Shackler's" sounds like it comes from a totally different album.
#18 Re: Guns N' Roses » IGN: Axl Needs To Go Solo » 873 weeks ago
I don't suppose Axl should take advice from a website that posted a positive then a negative review of SR within one week.
To be fair, a lot of IGN's posts are from various blogs written by music fans on the internet. Some of the music reviews are positive, some negative. But IGN doesn't actually write a lot of these articles. They just host them on their website. So that's why you get some inconsistency.
#19 Re: Guns N' Roses » IGN: Axl Needs To Go Solo » 873 weeks ago
OH SHIT, YOU WERE QUOTING SOMEONE WEREN'T YOU, I AM SORRY
No worries. I figured you were responding to that comment I copied and pasted. You should post your response on the GnR Daily website. There's been a debate going on there about the IGN article.
#20 Re: Guns N' Roses » IGN: Axl Needs To Go Solo » 873 weeks ago
We all know Izzy and Axl were THE songwriters in GN'R.
To be fair, it can get confusing as to who was the primary songwriters in GnR. Slash and Duff definitely contributed a lot. I'd have to say Izzy/Axl/Slash/Duff were the "holy quartet" and in that order. And Steven Adler probably contributed more than he's been given credit for. Here's a recap of who wrote what (cover songs excluded)...
APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION
Welcome To The Jungle (Rose/Slash/McKagan/Adler)
It's So Easy (McKagan/West Arkeen)
Nightrain (Rose/McKagan/Slash/Stradlin)
Out Ta Get Me (Rose/Stradlin/Slash)
Mr. Brownstone (Stradlin/Slash)
Paradise City (Rose/Slash/Stradlin/McKagan/Adler)
My Michelle (Rose/Stradlin)
Think About You (Stradlin)
Sweet Child O Mine (Rose/Slash/Stradlin/McKagan)
You're Crazy (Rose/Stradlin/Slash)
Anything Goes (Rose/Stradlin/Chris Webter)
Rocket Queen (Rose/Slash/McKagan)
GnR LIES
Reckless Life (Rose/Stradlin)
Move To The City (Stradlin/Del James/Chris Weber)
Patience (Stradlin)
Used To Love Her (Stradlin)
One In A Million (Rose)
USE YOUR ILLUSION I
Right Next Door To Hell (Rose/Stradlin)
Dust n Bones (Slash/Stradlin/McKagan)
Don't Cry (Rose/Stradlin)
Perfect Crime (Rose/Slash/Stradlin)
You Ain't The First (Stradlin)
Bad Obsession (Stradlin)
Back off Bitch (Rose/Paul Tobias)
Double Talkin Jive (Stradlin)
November Rain (Rose)
The Garden (Rose/Arkeen/James)
Garden of Eden (Rose/Slash)
Dont' Damn Me (Rose/Slash/Dave Lank)
Bad Apples (Rose/Slash/Stradlin/McKagan)
Dead Horse (Rose)
Coma (Rose/Slash)
USE YOUR ILLUSION II
Civil War (Rose/Slash/McKagan)
14 Years (Stradlin)
Yesterdays (Rose/Arkeen/James/Billy McCloud)
Get In The Ring (Rose/Slash/McKagan)
Shotgun Blues (Rose)
Breakdown (Rose)
Pretty Tied Up (Rose)
Locomotive (Rose/Slash)
So Fine (McKagan)
Estranegd (Rose)
You Could Be Mine (Stradlin)
My World (Rose)
NO. OF SONGWRITING CREDITS (out of 44 songs)
Axl Rose: 31
Slash: 17
Duff McKagan: 11
Izzy Stradlin: 23
Steven Adler: 2
