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#1791 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 895 weeks ago

Seeing that the Rumble is going to be held in Detroit for the first time in a few short weeks, I'm going to try really hard to make it.

I think you should go since it's the only one of the big PPV that you haven't attended.  I find the Royal Rumble the most entertaining of all the big PPV.

Regarding another Austin match, if they can't get Hogan would Jericho be a logical second choice?  He's red hot as a heel, cuts insane promos and could probably guide Austin towards a good match.  Currently, Jericho is not involved in any specific program.  I'm discounting both HBK and Undertaker since those two are slated to face each other at WM (at least according to rumors).  There's no one else on the roster worth who would fit the specific criteria for Austin's final match anyway.

Savage wanted to stay an active wrestler so he got pissed with being a Commentator all the time.  I remember one of his last matches was against Crush at WMX, I loved that.

I forget how this feud started--didn't this orignially involve Doink the evil clown beating up on Crush.  Then Savage saved Crush from another beating and eventually Crush turned on Savage, claiming he was a bad friend.  I think he ended up injuring Savage's throat after press slamming him on a guard rail.

And yes the match at WM X was excellent.

#1792 Re: The Sunset Strip » Most Recent Movie You've Seen » 895 weeks ago

Ronin (1998) was not as good as the first few times I've seen it.  Regardless, I enjoyed the car chase scenes (especially the one in Nice) and Jonathan Pryce was great as the villian.

Le Deuxieme Souffle (1966)--this one was tedious and plodding.  I nearly fell asleep several times.  The acting was pretty good as I liked Paul Meurisse as Inspector Blot--he was charming, daft--and Lino Ventura was convincing as Gu.  When compared to Le Cercle Rouge it falls short even though some of the same themes are explored. 

OT: I'm planning to go see Gran Torino either this weekend or next week.  Would it be better to create a seperate thread for that specific movie?

#1793 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy Elimination Round 5 » 895 weeks ago

Same vote as last time--Street of Dreams.

#1794 Re: The Garden » Read any good books lately? » 895 weeks ago

the flanders panel by arturo perez-reverte. fucking brilliant. loved it.

I read this years ago and enjoyed it even though I don't know how to play chess.  Did you ever read the club dumas by the same author?  The Ninth Gate was based on this book.

Currently, I'm reading The Seventh Sacrament by David Hewson.  It's a police procedural set in Italy.

#1795 Re: The Garden » Pepsi altering course for dumbed down public » 895 weeks ago

They're already doing it.  Anyone catch the new Pepsi commercial on tv?  The logo was altered from the traditional logo.

#1796 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 895 weeks ago

Hogan - CLAIMS - that he will do a "clean job" to Austin. He has no problem with it, and would love to see it happen, especially for an event like WM.

Interesting.  Who'll do the heavy liftining in the match though?  Hogan had to be carried in the HBK match in 2005 and Austin has multiple knee and neck surgeries over the years and hasn't wrestled for a while (I'd like to say 2002 but I'm not sure).  Ultimately, though the pre match buildup will be a lot more entertaining than the match itself.

Hogan alluded to Bubba, that Vince isn't even talking his phone calls anymore.

It's been that way for a while.  At some point these guys gets pissed off at one another for some reason or another.  At the end of the day the money brings them all back to the table.

Me thinks Linda is breaking it off sideways in him in court. He needs the money imo.

Yes.  He also has that civil lawsuit to contend regarding the injuries suffered by
John Graziano.

#1797 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 895 weeks ago

Oh and by the way, that on air role you're referring to in 2003, was when Vince's did an angle where Eric Bischoff had become GM of RAW, and I believe Austin was made 'Sheriff' of RAW, to keep Eric in line.

Is that when that dammed What? catchphrase became popular?  Anyway, which wrestler would be best for him to face in one match where Austin can have a great match?  Just curious about the answer since I have no idea.  Jericho maybe?

Steph is not to blame for the booking decisions. Last I heard, it was in fact, Jim Ross, that makes all booking decisions. Steph, and I believe Dusty Rhodes, are the head's responsible for storylines and direction. So maybe they are OR aren't responsible. Who knows?

You're wrong here--she is responsible for the booking.  This is what her wikipedia page says: She was promoted to Senior Vice President of Creative Writing in 2006.[2] She oversees the hiring of scriptwriters, supervises the writing team, and is involved in the long-term booking of WWE.   I believe that Dusty Rhodes used to book for ECW before heading to FCW (WWE affiliate in Florida).  I don't think Jim Ross was ever involved in WWE booking.  His job (aside for commentating) was hiring people not writing. 

I think I read somewhere where SMH prefers the soap opera style storylines.  Last year's epic feud with Jericho and Michaels were primarily written with extensive input from both men.  The strange part about the crackpot WWE booking is that sometimes I find the over the top  storylines entertaining.  Anybody remember the time when the evil Undertaker( with the ministry) tried to embalm Stone Cold?  I think they knocked him out with for formaldehyde and dragged him to a dark cemetary.  Luckily, Austin woke up in time and fended them off. Another off the top storyline that made very little sense was the entire Undertaker vs Kane storyline and who actually set fire to their home.  What kind of balance should they take with their booking strategy?  Old school no frills booking or the soap opera stuff.  Ideally you'd like a balance between the two.

But then again... Hogan was never a good wrestler either

Yeah but he tried to keep up most of the time and I think he understood match psychology a lot better than Cena.  He even carried Warrior in the previously mentioned WM 6 main event.  I get annoyed by Cena because 1)he isn't very entertaining--sorry those juvenille jokes don't entertain me 2) his matches just don't flow very well.  I think it was at last month's PPV where he was getting beat down by Jericho.  He escapes the Walls of Jericho and applies his STFU submission move and wins just like that. I will say this about Cena I think he might be a victim of "WWE style" wrestling.  I remember reading that he was a pretty good wrestler in OVW and then when he comes up those skills disappear.  I guess he got smart and realized he didn't need to wrestle a lot to get over.

#1798 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 895 weeks ago

The story behind that for Vince, was at the time, it was alot like the scenario of the Hogan/Austin dream ticket of today. Hogan & Flair's egos were so gigantic, that NEITHER of them were willing to job to the other

This doesn't bother me as much since we got a great Savage-Flair feud over Elizabeth, culminating in their Wrestlemania 8 match.

I think there's alot of people that'd love to see Austin in at least one more match (he said not long ago, he's physically is in enough shape to wrestle for up to two years) full time, if he had to). But I think where the catch is... no one wants to see Austin get back in the ring against the aging Hogan. Plus Austin's been out of it for so long... will he be the Axl Rose of wrestling? The comeback is a major disappointment, because it's not like the hey day, the prime.

Can he really be compared to Axl though?  Austin was the guy in the WWE from 1997-2002.  After that he was around for a year with some on air role.  Axl was basically MIA from 1994-2001.  Personally, I'm not sure I want to see Austin wrestle, didn't he have major surgeries on both knees and his neck too?  He changed his wrestling style too from a technical aspect to favoring a brawling style.

I think the Nwo in WWE angle was pretty much doomed to failure.  Hogan always has some sort of issue with McMahon.  Hall has substance abuse issues.  Nash can't stay healthy enough to be reliable.  The only interesting thing that came out of that was the Hogan face turn in his match with the Rock at Wrestlemanina.

The issue with nWo over staying it's welcome, was something Vince showed he was much more keen with business, with DX.

See this is what frustrates me about McMahon, he makes great business decisions.  However, when it comes to the actual storylines and stuff sometimes he fails and FAILS miserably.  There was the entire Katie Vick angle.  The angle last year where he blew himself up in the limo is another one.  The entire booking of John Cena where he is seen as a current day Hogan is laughable considering half the fan base HATES him.  Although, I'm wondering how much of this I should be blaming on Stephanie Mcmahon-Helmsley since she's been head booker since 2002 I think.  IMO they should give those powers to Shane McMahon he seems to have a better grasp on what the audience actually wants.

#1799 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 895 weeks ago

Since we're discussing post 1993 WWF, here's a couple of things I think were important towards WCW's dominance of WWF(1995-early 1998).  WCW basically hit a home run with the nwo angle(at least in 1996 before it became lame later).  When Scott Hall and Kevin Nash first appeared on WCW in spring 1996, it was implied that WWF was invading WCW. (note: it was eventually clarified that neither man was working for WWF at that time)  The booking was absolutely brilliant as this kinda became a mystery as to who would be the third guy as everyone was being mentioned--Bret Hart, Sting etc.   No one suspected it would be Hogan as he was a babyface for the majority of his career.  That was a giant SWERVE that was perfectly booked since Hogan was getting stale at the time.  FYI, Bobby Heenan almost blew the surprise with his commentary after Hogan starts running out.

Isn't WWF attitude greatly infleunced by classic ECW?  So in that regard some credit must be given to Paul Heyman's wrestling organization.  I mean the classic Hart-Austin WM XIII I Quit Match has ECW written all over it.  Plus the Austin's fuck it all attitude originated in 1995 with an ECW promo where he wears a bandana and starts shooting on a whole bunch of people--Bischoff and Hogan included.  Remember the hardcore title, and the increase of blood on WWE tv, those were all ECW style things in which they incorporated into their product.

While WCW made a lot of boneheaded personnel moves as outlined by AxlinO8, you can't omit the stupidity of their booking decisions.  David Arquette as WCW champion, Dennis Rodman wrestling (and clearly in it for the money), and that bad Megadeth/Curt Hennig angle are some examples.  On top of that giving Kevin Nash the booking responsibilities in the late 90s led to their decline as well.  Fingerpoke of doom anyone remember that bad angle--hyped main event only to end in a disappointing swerve.  The misuse of Bret Hart also counts as a strike against WCW creative.

I think Vince kinda got lucky when the "Mr. McMahon" character took off.  Lucky in the sense that most of the fans still sided with Bret Hart in the Montreal screwjob dispute.  It gave Vince instant heat with the fans and he just played off being an arrogant jerk which he probably is in real life.

#1800 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 895 weeks ago

I think Warrior was just difficult to deal with and a general pain in the ass.  He returned at WM 8 and was scheduled to be in the main event at Survivor Series in the tag team match with Flair and Razor Ramon vs Randy Savage and himself.  He left like a month before the event.  Mcmahon was indicted in summer of 1993.  The changing of the guard really shouldn't be that suprising.  Hogan, Savage and Flair were all old, even though they left on separate issues.  Hogan-ego issues with WM.  Flair, I think he was unhappy and wanted to go back to WCW.  Savage--I'm not sure why he left.  I do think the fact that WCW had emerged as a player in this does account for some of the changes.  They signed Rick Rude and Jake the Snake in 1992 I think.  As far as Mr. Perfect goes, he was battling a persistent back problem that limited his in ring involvement.  I think  he had a high insurance premium which would have benefited him if he didn't wrestle.  The 1992-1993 upheaval hit its nadir when they had Hogan run in and win the WWF title in a ludicrous fashion at WM IX.  That was a horrible PPV as well.  Luckily Hogan left later that year.  The significant point of the change of 1992-1993 was the rise of the smaller wrestler.  Hart (Owen and Bret), Michaels and Razor (to the some extent) weren't the big well sculped guys favored by Vinnie Mac.  They had great work rates (Razor wasn't a full on drunk at this point, that would come later) and could go.  Didn't Sean Waltman aka 123 kid breakout as a star at this point too?  Unfortunately, Vince's big man fetish didn't totally go away--Giant Gonzales anyone?  If were looking at Spring 1993, does the fact that Monday Night Raw debuted during this time factor in here at all?  Anyway this is an interesting discussion that I hope continues.  I first started watching WWF during this period.  So this is a trip down memory lane for me too.

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