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#1501 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank" » 712 weeks ago
monkeychow wrote:polluxlm wrote:No point? So far he's proven to be a far better songwriter than DJ.
Not sure about that...to my knowledge Robin's only songwriting credit is Better...DJ has commercially successful writing credits with Sixx:AM and Motley Crue under his belt.
Unless you mean because Axl released an Album with a Robin song on it and not with DJ.
But if we're going to transmute Axl's decisions on to the band members you'd have to note a bunch of stuff that wouldn't go down well....like Slash was able to get 5 EPs/Albums out of Axl.....and that when Robin and Bucket were in the band not only did they not get an album out (until BOTH members had quit) and that the only tour they lanched with that line up in 2002 also went belly-up.
So it's better to consider what the members can do separately from what they do when with Axl.
And DJ has proven himself to be able to walk the line between classic rock and relevant to the current rock audience very well.
I'm no expert on DJs stuff, but from what I've heard I prefer Robin. Both the way he plays guitar and how he structures his solos.
And I don't really think it was the writing that hindered a release from the 02 band. It was Axl being an insecure perfectionist and having the freedom to work on it forever. Buckethead and Finck put down some great stuff, many fans agree and from what we hear so does Axl. Not getting the desired reaction from "the world" whenever new music surfaced seems to have been the major hold up.
Bono wrote:DJ's Ballad of Death trumps everything on CD in my opinion.
More likely the hold up was record industry people holding up the release in hopes of getting a reunion. Zutaut has said that the album was ready in 2001; then Fortus came on board and they re-recorded Huge's parts (fair enough). It was ready to go, but people kept telling Axl "There are no hits on this album." Which is bullshit – a properly-marketed Better or TWAT or Madagascar in 2002 would've done just fine. But management/company people kept telling Axl the record wasn't ready, in hopes of forcing a reunion. It backfired; instead of doing what they wanted, he was his usual stubborn self and said, "Okay, well it's obviously missing something, I'll keep tinkering."
Oh, also: if Axl thought Ballad of Death was any cop, he would've taken it and turned it into a song. Likewise Bumblefoot's Simple Days, which IIRC he pitched to Axl as a GN'R track.
#1502 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank" » 712 weeks ago
Also, I like Robin's versions of the old solos, changes and all. Why? Because there's feeling in there. I like players (and singers) who wear their heart on their sleeve; the likes of DJ and Myles hit the notes but seem to be going through the motions, a pastiche of a rockstar. When Robin tortures one of those atonal bends out, I dig it because he's pouring his emotion into that guitar. I'd much rather that than DJ's soulless, "rock star" posturing – which always come across like he's acting a part.
Bumblefoot I have less of an issue with; I don't like his twiddly technical flourishes on the old songs, but I don't mind them because that's how he expresses his emotion through his guitar.
#1503 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank" » 712 weeks ago
Yes, I wish Axl would bring Robin back. And Buckethead too, and Brain along with 'em. I realise that's massively unlikely, if the antagonism between Bucket and Robin, and Bucket and Stinson that's been alluded to is true. Though as an aside, I'd sacrifice literally anyone to get Bucket back. Stinson doesn't like him? Fuck him. Get Duff back.
Axl's happy and settled with the current line-up, and they all seem to be stand-up guys – but the 2001/2002-era line-up was the one that got me into GN'R. The perfect GN'R for me would be the 2002-era line-up, but with 2006-era Axl's look and voice. That band would've killed.
#1504 Re: Guns N' Roses » BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is ' » 713 weeks ago
misterID wrote:For the life of me, I can't picture Axl digging anything like what's here.
That could be a hold up.
That's an interesting idea.
And I'm not saying it to bash DJ - he's guitar ideas can make pretty good rock stuff like in Sixx:Am....
But the question is does Axl want to do rock stuff?
It seemed like one of the major issues he had writing with slash after UYI was that he just wasn't inspired getting guitar based songs "dumped" on him.
It's obvious listening to Chinese Democracy that most of the songs have their genesis away from the guitar - in a synth line - or a melody - or a rhythm or some kind of hook - and the guitars are added to solo and to accompany the other pre-existing song ideas. They're not guitar led songs in the way of a Paradise City etc
Think about how Axl said a true solo album might be more instrumental. I think he writes but he's more into melodies and orchestra and stuff than writing classic rock songs.
I think he might be in a bind - he needed a DJ to be able to replicate the slash heavy back catalogue for live shows - and to do that well you need a classic rock emulator....but I'm not at all sure his other songs in the vault are suited to classic rock style or that he'd want to sit down and write a classic rock album of guitar numbers.
I think Axl needs to write a soundtrack. At its best, his music is cinematic. And if he needs a hand with the orchestrations (and November Rain suggests he doesn't) there are always collaborators like Marco Beltrami.
#1505 Re: Guns N' Roses » BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is ' » 713 weeks ago
While I'm busy going off on one – the problem I have with Bumblefoot, as much as I like him as a human being, is that you bloody know that whenever there's a crescendo of any sort within a song, he is going to put in some twiddly technical stuff – whether it's appropriate or not.
Compare the bit of Nightrain from 2:35 onwards in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBw_U3GNJJo
with this bit from 2:21 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWK99RS18JQ
Buckethead and Bumblefoot have both elaborated on Slash's original solo, but where Buckethead comes up with an interesting little scale made of single notes, Bumblefoot adds that twiddly bit right before Axl comes back in. It's unnecessary and predictable. Buckethead knows when just a single note will do (even in his infamous Nightrain solos, there are plenty of points where he's not twiddling away doing fast runs), and I don't think Bumble (or Ashba, for that matter) have that restraint.
Actually, no I'm not finished with Ashba. Even when he's called on to do a simple string bend – in, say, the Sorry or Don't Cry solos, he does that bloody thing where he delays it by a fraction of a second and strikes the pick against the muted lower strings on his way to the note he's looking for. Or adds an extra little bend by way of a flourish, like at 3:41 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq19Wi-AoYQ
It makes it overwrought and OTT. Bumble's nowhere near as bad as Ashba, but I wish they'd both learn to hold back on occasion.
ETA: I don't mind as much when Bumble does his twiddly thing – because he's clearly feeling the song, and his way of expressing that is through his fast runs. But Ashba's flourishes just seems very... calculated – part of his rock star posturing.
#1506 Re: Guns N' Roses » BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is ' » 713 weeks ago
And on the subject of Slash's work versus Axl's work – I get the feeling that Axl strives for excellence, where Slash is willing to settle. Paired up with a frontman who's prepared to go the extra mile, you get stuff like the best of Velvet Revolver; Slither, Messages, Fall To Pieces. But without other creative people around him, Slash tends to lapse into radio-rock clichés – Starlight, Standing in the Sun, etc. He needs that extra spark to come up with something like By The Sword – and unfortunately, the person with that spark is Axl. It's telling that Slash considered approaching the likes of Thom Yorke and Jack White for his first solo album, but backed down. And gave us fucking Kid Rock instead.
Myles Kennedy, bless him, can hit the notes, but he is one of the most banal lyricists I've ever heard. It's all rock clichés and obvious rhymes ("Starlight is bright tonight," or whatever it is). A song about vampires that was clearly gunning for a spot on a Twilight or True Blood soundtrack. Something something wasn't it crazy when we were younger but now we're sensible. A girl who ends up on the wrong side of the tracks. I shot a man over a girl and now I've got to go to Mexico, blood is on my hands tonight. Oh, fuck off, do. Give me Catcher in the Rye or Prostitute any day.
And he doesn't sing with any feeling; look at him on stage, he doesn't know where to put his hands. Axl pours himself into every lyric, makes you feel the venom and the heartbreak. Myles... can sing in key.
Really, I wish that Myles and DJ Ashba would form a band and peddle their sub-Nickelback shite somewhere else.
#1507 Re: Guns N' Roses » BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is ' » 713 weeks ago
misterID wrote:For the life of me, I can't picture Axl digging anything like what's here.
That could be a hold up.
can't stand anything about him....
Yeah, I'm increasingly feeling the same way. Say what you like about Robin (personally I love him), but he had a distinctive, interesting sound. You knew when he was playing, and his weird atonal string bends and slides and wiggly-leg stuff had heart and feeling and meaning.
Ashba just churns out banal, generic licks with clichéd flourishes. I know exactly how he's going to play a solo before he plays it, and I know exactly what predictable twiddly shit and delayed bends he's going to layer over a note that should've been sustained. He's ruined the This I Love and Better outro solos. I can't stand his Criss Angel looks (shallow, I know, and it's the least criticism I have of him – the guy can wear what he likes as long as he plays well), and his calculated rock-star posturing.
I'm sure he's a nice guy, and his anti-bullying work has to be applauded, but I don't think he brings anything to GN'R.
I want Robin back. And Bucket. And, y'know what, Huge too. I've been rewatching the RIR 2001 videos recently, and there's such promise and potential in that band. They were actually writing new material, for all that behind the scenes they apparently didn't get on. Robin and Bucket really complemented each other, in a way that Bumble and Ashba (and even Bumble and Robin) didn't.
#1508 Re: GN'R Downloads » CD Moggs Currently Available » 713 weeks ago
Has anyone got the If The World and Prostitute MOGGs?
#1509 Re: Guns N' Roses » GNR played Acoustic gig for Tommy Hilfiger in CA » 714 weeks ago
elevendayempire wrote:Riad wrote:That's assuming that the, chord structures are what make the music great. That may be the case with some bands like the Ramones where it's all about hard hitting chord structures, but it wouldn't matter a shit with GNR because GNR is about the sound of Axl's voice and the emotion he expresses with the tone of Slash's guitar and the emotion that expresses. They could be playing 2 chords over and over or baroque masterpiece and it's still the sound of that voice and that guitar together that make the music great. The proof of that for me is this:
That piece of music was selo-taped together from two random sources, and the match of voice and guitar tone just fucking exceeds either songs original version (with the exception of Buckets amazing Solo on ITW). There is no one out there listening to GNR for their chord structures.
For the record here. I'm talking about old guns I personally love Chinese Democracy and enjoy the current lineup a lot. I would say my fav GNR songs are Better and IRS then Brownstone. I'm talking about Old Gnr here. I think had Slash given those songs to Axl they would have been pure gold and I base that conclusion of the mix above of a VR song with Axl's awesome vocal over it and I think that's fair enough to be honest.
But I'm not just talking about chord structures. I'm talking about lyrics and melody. It's easy to say that a hypothetical song might be better than what we actually have – because we'll never have the hypothetical song to compare with reality. Who knows what lyrics and vocal melodies Axl might have come up with for Slash's Snakepit songs? Who knows how they would've been altered over the course of rehearsals? Axl might have decided to slap electronic fart noises and orchestras all over Beggars and Hangers-On for all we know.
Yeah so then you're saying it's the lyrics and melody that make the song, same thing. For me it's the sound of slash and axl together that's the most important part and I do know how that sounds.
No, I'm saying that comparing hypothetical songs to ACTUAL songs is an exercise in futility. It's like Star Wars fans in the 1990s saying, "Wow, imagine if George Lucas were to make a Star Wars film with modern special effects..." – in their minds it would be the perfect film, because they were basing it on their expectations. And then George Lucas made the prequel films, and they were disappointed; never mind whether the films were good or not, they could never have lived up to the perfect films that fans had conjured up in their imaginations.
Yes, This I Love with a Slash solo on it might have been the greatest song ever, but we'll never know – just as we'll never know what lyrics and melodies Axl might have put on Beggars and Hangers-On or Fall To Pieces. They might have been absolute donkeys, for all we know, and for all that you assert that the "sound of Slash and Axl is the important thing." Because in your imagination, the combination of Slash and Axl would have created some sort of magic that would've lifted the songs – but that's just your imagination talking.
#1510 Re: Guns N' Roses » GNR played Acoustic gig for Tommy Hilfiger in CA » 714 weeks ago
elevendayempire wrote:Riad wrote:There was GNR materila on snakepit 1. I would love to have heard axl on neither can I and beggars and hangers on. Beggars would be a classic rock tune right now (of the sweet home alabama kind) if Axl sang on it
There's a lot of this "such-and-such a song would be a classic if Axl sang on it," but we just don't know. Because the lyrics and melodies would be completely different. I mean, in the case of By the Sword, the chorus chord structure was changed by Andrew Stockdale, so it'd be a different song musically, too.
That's assuming that the, chord structures are what make the music great. That may be the case with some bands like the Ramones where it's all about hard hitting chord structures, but it wouldn't matter a shit with GNR because GNR is about the sound of Axl's voice and the emotion he expresses with the tone of Slash's guitar and the emotion that expresses. They could be playing 2 chords over and over or baroque masterpiece and it's still the sound of that voice and that guitar together that make the music great. The proof of that for me is this:
That piece of music was selo-taped together from two random sources, and the match of voice and guitar tone just fucking exceeds either songs original version (with the exception of Buckets amazing Solo on ITW). There is no one out there listening to GNR for their chord structures.
For the record here. I'm talking about old guns I personally love Chinese Democracy and enjoy the current lineup a lot. I would say my fav GNR songs are Better and IRS then Brownstone. I'm talking about Old Gnr here. I think had Slash given those songs to Axl they would have been pure gold and I base that conclusion of the mix above of a VR song with Axl's awesome vocal over it and I think that's fair enough to be honest.
But I'm not just talking about chord structures. I'm talking about lyrics and melody. It's easy to say that a hypothetical song might be better than what we actually have – because we'll never have the hypothetical song to compare with reality. Who knows what lyrics and vocal melodies Axl might have come up with for Slash's Snakepit songs? Who knows how they would've been altered over the course of rehearsals? Axl might have decided to slap electronic fart noises and orchestras all over Beggars and Hangers-On for all we know.
